The story of Lucifer being banished from heaven....where is it at??!!

12 "You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.”
Ezekiel 28:12-14

"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.” Ezekiel 28:17

"you have set your heart as the heart of a god.” Ezekiel 28:6

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14

Chadwick
Pink Cross Moderator

...until someone showed me what Isaiah 14 is speaking of...the King of Babylon (see vs 4):

"That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON..."

This is not talking about Lucifer or Satan.

And notice what happens to the King of Babylon in vs. 10-11:

"They will all respond, they will say to you [King of Babylon] "You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us. All your pomp has been brought down to the grave [Satan died and was buried in a grave? Really?], along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you." [Worms don't eat spirit--Satan is a spirit.]

Satan never went from being good to bad, because Satan was never good to begin with. And this is how I can be sure. Take a look at how Jesus Christ described Satan in John 8:44-45, while He was berating those two-faced, lying deceitful religious hypocrites of His day:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode NOT in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not".

Satan is transformed into an angel of light, not into an devil of darkness.

Cor. 11:13-14 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is

*transformed into an angel of light.*

I hope this helps your understanding.

I'll tell you a secret about me: It wasn't that long ago that I would sit there and get so sick of trying to figure out the bible and what it meant. I knew I wasn't smart and I figured I'd sinned so much that God wouldn't ever show me the truth. But not only is God opening up my eyes to the truth of scripture bit by bit, but He is making me find the experience of reading the bible enjoyable! Unbelievable, you say. That's what I said too! I can't believe that reading the bible now is more enjoyable than .. well, LOTS of things I never thought possible, let's just put it that way!

I hope that this has been fun and interesting for you, too.

(Man! LOOk at how much you make me write!)

Love you,
Gina

Hi, agrl;

You're asking great questions. Pastor Chadwick is correct. Isaiah 14 is speaking about Lucifer....but Gina is also right in that it is also addressing the King of Babylon.

So, then, the question that arises is who is Lucifer? There are actually other viewpoints that say that Lucifer does not actually refer to Satan in the Isaiah passage, because the Hebrew word halal actually means "the shining one," and doesn't refer to Satan specifically, but to the king of Babylon, who was boastful; even so, I do believe that this passage is indirectly addressing Satan.

Many prophetic books in the Bible contain what is called a "dual fulfillment," which means that it is addressing both events in the immediate future, and also in the distant future. I'm one of those people who believe that this Isaiah passage is a sort of that -- addressing both the King of Babylon and also the power behind him -- Satan.

Read the passage in it's entirety. In verses 9-11, Isaiah addresses the King of Baylon, then in verses 12 and 13 he begins to address Satan. What he is doing is basically shifting his subject from the King of Babylon to the power who is behind the king -- Satan.

He goes from addressing the King of Babylon to Satan because Satan was the power who was influencing this king.

I do believe that the entire passage, even though its addressing the King of Babylon, is addressed to Satan also. Remember when Jesus said to the apostle Peter Get thee behind me, Satan? It would be silly to think that Jesus was calling Peter Satan. No, he was addressing Satan, but he was speaking to Peter. It's like this in the Isaiah passage as well.

Indeed, the rulers of this world are influenced by principalities and powers in the spiritual realm. Just look at Eph. 6:12:

For we do not rule against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

In Daniel 10:12,13, when the angel appears to Daniel, he states that he would have come sooner, but the prince of the Kingdom of Persia withstood him, and Michael the archangel had to come to his aid. He then goes on to talk about the prince of Greece. These are not actual human princes, of course, but the spiritual powers behind the kingdoms of these nations.

This view makes the passage in Isaiah make a lot more sense.

As far as Lucifer getting kicked out of heaven, from what I understand, he is still in heaven. If he weren't, how could he be at the throne of God accusing the brethren. The book of Job describes him as having presented himself with the rest of the holy angels, after having gone to and fro on the earth, sio obviously, he still has access to God, but his place of continual servitude in heaven has been abolished, and now he stands as an enemy of God, and the accuser of us.

As far as Scriptures that talk about Satan being banished from heaven, in Luke 10:18, Jesus says I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Also, Rev. 12:7-9 talks about the great war in heaven, fought between Michael and Satan, and Satan ends up being cast down to the earth along with his angels....but I'm not sure of this has happened yet, or if this will occur in the future.

The fact, though, that the Bible says that Satan is at the throne of God accusing thr brethren still seems to indicate that this has not happened yet. Satan will definitely be banished from heaven, but as of now, we at least know that Satan's position of glory has been taken away from him.

Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

Hi, Gina;

I must respectfully disagree with the following statement:

The truth is, that God created Satan. To say that Satan was never good is to say that God created Satan evil. To say that God created evil would not be consistent with His nature.

Not only that, but the Bible describes Satan as a fallen angel. The word "fall" implies that one goes from an elevated state to a lower state, i.e. from good to bad. Satan was an angel...all agel were created good.

Perhaps you have some Scripture that might clarify your positon? I would love to hear it :)

Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

The concordance meaning for the word "transformed" in the verse is talking about transfigure or to disguise himself. The Merriam-webster's dictionary defines transfigure as "to shape or fashion; to give a new and typically exalted or spiritual appearance; to transform outwardly"

I do not believe the verse was intended to mean that satan would become good, or transformed into an angel of light. We need to remember the context of the verse within the whole chapter, and then the whole bible. There is nothing in scripture to my knowledge that ever says that satan will ever become transformed into an "angel of light" literally, which seems to imply he will become good. No, I believe the context of the verse is talking about satan's ability to decieve people is thru his ability to appear or disguise himself as an angel of light. But it is his deception. We believe lies because they are deceiving. We believe lies because they look right and good. Satan is good at deceiving. He may look like he is an angel of light, but he is not. He never will be. He will be thrown into the lake of sulfur and fire. From what I've read of some of the articles on that website you study from, I gather the author of that website does not agree with that, does he?

"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)

Satan was rarely mentioned in the Old Testament by the name "satan" or "lucifer", etc. He is mentioned as the "serpent" in the Old Testament, in Genesis 3: 1-19. I have not studied it in any detail, but if I am right, the rest of the Old Testament just talks about evil kings...I do think that we can learn a whole lot about satan's characteristics and ways, and about spiritual warfare, through the Old Testament stories. The New Testament is more specific in detailing his purposes and goals. Pretty much the concept of "type and shadow".

We have much to learn about the bible, if we will keep studying and praying and seeking God, and remember the Holy Spirit teaches us. But as I mentioned in my post below about the verses 2 Corinthians 11...we must be careful, since there is that possibility of being deceived: "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you have received a different spirit which you have not received (huh?), or a different gospel which you have not accepted..." (2 Corinth. 11:3-4)

"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)

Hi, Beloved

Thank you for your response. You ask HARD questions. I can tell you have a real hunger for the truth, and you're not going to allow false statements to slip by you. That is good! We are warned:

"BELOVED [ah? see? that's you], DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. (1 John 4:1 Amplified Bible)

I'll be offsetting some words in capital letters simply to bring them out to make them show up more clearly. I'm not yelling at you or trying to make you feel stupid. (I can tell you are NOT stupid.)

You said:

"The truth is, that God created Satan. To say that Satan was never good is to say that God created Satan evil. To say that God created evil would not be consistent with His nature."

You and I are in agreement that God is NOT evil. "God is love." (1 John 4:8, 16) "I know the plans I have for you... not evil." (Jer. 29:11) "You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil. With you the wicked cannot dwell ...for surely Lord you bless the righteous." (Psalm 5:4,12 NIV) And still what I'm about to show you is not for the faint of heart.

As for God not creating evil...well, there was the knowledge of evil in the tree of knowledge of good and evil (one tree with the knowledge of good AND evil) which God made to grow. In the same tree. How did it get there? By itself? Or did Someone put it there.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL.

"I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and CREATE EVIL. I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Regarding Satan and his beginning:

Genesis 3:1 Now the SERPENT was more subtil [sic] than any beast of the field which the *LORD God had MADE.*

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old SERPENT, which is the Devil, and SATAN,...

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath FORMED the CROOKED SERPENT.

"Behold, I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16).

Ecclesiastes 1:13 (KJV) And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this **sore TRAVAIL hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.** [The Concordant Literal version interprets Ecc 1:13 this way: ...God has given to the sons of humanity an EXPERIENCE OF EVIL, to HUMBLE HIM by it.]

Regarding Satan's fall, let's test it out:

Satan fell from heaven, it's true. Jesus said:

Luke 10:18 (KJV) And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

But that in no way proves that Satan was being kicked out of heaven for turning against God. Jesus said "I beheld Satan as *lightening* [who is transformed into an angel of *light*?] fall from heaven. God's heaven?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and SATAN came also among them.

[SATAN? In HEAVEN? Hmmmm.... why was He allowed in God's heaven?]

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

...

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

And after all of the hardship that God gave Satan PERMISSION to put Job through, notice what Job ended up saying to the Lord:

Job 42:5 .....NOW mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and REPENT in dust and ashes.

How could Job worship God after all that evil inflicted on him with God's APPROVAL!

Because the word evil itself has no moral bias. God is not evil. And God does not sin and it is not a sin on God's part to create evil. But I believe (not saying you have to believe it) that God USES evil for a good purpose:

Ecclesiastes 1:13 *...God has given to the sons of humanity an EXPERIENCE OF EVIL, to HUMBLE HIM by it.*

Romans 8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

That's what I believe. Again, I am not here to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. I hope it doesn't appear that way. I love you all and see a real hunger for God's word.

I used www.biblegateway.com and the Concordant Literal version [not the easiest version to understand, I confess] to reference all scriptures.

Thank you for asking Beloved! You are right to question me.

Love,
Gina

Satan is transformed [disguised] into an angel of light. He is not light. He is a liar [deceiver] and a murderer and prince of darkness. You are right. Forgive me for not making that more clear. He wasn't transformed [disguised] as a demon of darkness, because that's in fact what Satan is. He is a spirit of darkness, and in order to deceive and make people believe a lie, he is transformed into an angel of light, but we know that he is not the true light.

Regarding your question as tp what the author believes, he's available by email. Sorry, I just can't answer that question.

This is what the Scriptures say:

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers , and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I hope that helps.

Love,
Gina

Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thanks for clarifying that!

"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)

Oh, hey! No problem-O, Precious! :) Thanks for your reply.

Please, if I may be so bold, also let me point out one last thing about the word "Lucifer":

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not Latin.

"Lucifer" is Latin and not Hebrew.

From my dictionary:

Lucifer:
ORIGIN Old English , from LATIN, ‘light-bringing, morning star,’ from lux, luc- ‘light’ + -fer ‘bearing.’

From what I can tell so far in my studies, the King James translators referenced the Latin Vulgate instead of referencing the Hebrew! Whoopsies.

And the Latin version I guess (please feel free to correct me on this) was translated from the Septuagint Greek, which Greek version was translated from the Hebrew (the original language of the Old Testament, follow?)

Now, apparently (apparently - not saying it's a fact) it's believed that when the Greek translators came to the Hebrew word heylel, they left out one of the smallest letters/strokes of the Hebrew alphabet (i.e., a yod or a "jot"), which then changed the root meaning of the Hebrew word entirely - to mean "shining one" when it actually meant "HOWL" as in "O howl [like the dog you are, King of Babylon], son of the dawn..."

Notice please also that the word "lucifer" is found nowhere else in scripture. Strange.

And according to some, "son of the dawn" or "son of the morning" was not meant to be a title, but it was rather an epithet (and probably a taunt) towards the King of Babylon, and so no capitalization was even necessary -- it was just an adjective, not a proper noun or a name of someone.

That makes sense to me, but that's where I have to stop on this topic, because I don't know Latin, Greek, or Hebrew and I can't even pretend that I do (for that would be a lie, and I'm terrified of misleading anyone -- lest the Lord chasten me with His amazing, powerful GRACE (ouchies). "For whom the Lord loves, He chastens..."

But if you're interested, you can google "what is the meaning of Lucifer" and check it out for yourselves.

Thanks for reading and I hope that helps.

Love from above,
Gina

Hi, Gina;

Thanks for responding. In Isaiah 45:7, the word evil here is actually referring to God's judgment -- not the evil of sin. I like how one commentator, John Gill, presents it:

"Evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace

Every other commentator that I reviewed agrees with this interpretation. The word can also be interpreted as "calamity," as the ESV translates it. I can't think of any other place in the Bible which supports the idea that God directly created evil. Evil is a manifestation of sin.

Indeed Satan's pride is what caused him to fall. 1 Tim. 3:6 warns us (leaders, more specifically) about being puffed up with pride and falling into the condemnation of the devil. The condemnation of the devil refers to the fact that Satan is under the condemnatory sentence of God because of his original sin of rebellion against God, which sin was motivated by pride. What is intimated here is that the cause of Satan's fall was pride.

This is the same sin that the Babylonian king is being rebuked for in the Isaiah passages being discussed. It is quite apparent that this king had a huge ego, even exalting himself above God. We know what Satan's destiny is, and this Timothy verse tells us that those who give into pride and haughtiness will suffer the same condemnation as he. Pride is a very serious sin to God.

It is this sin which caused Satan to fall from his esteemed position in heaven. Of course, Satan still has access to God in heaven, but one day even that will be terminated.

Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies