Can Christians play bad characters?
This comes from: http://mondaymorninginsight.com/blog/post/alice_cooper_on_being_a_christ...
How does Alice Cooper view his stage performa compared to his Christian faith? You're about to find out:
In a recent interview, Alice (can I call you Alice?) said this:
“As a Christian, I don't declare myself as a 'Christian rock star.' I'm a rock performer who's a Christian. Alice Cooper is the guy who wants to entertain the audience - it happens that he's a Christian. Alice (the character I play on stage) began life as a villain and he remains one. There's a villain and a hero in every Shakespeare play... Alice is no more dangerous than a villain in a cartoon or a Disney film. We have fun with him. He snarls and wears make up. He's punished for his crime and he comes back on the stage in white top and tails. We put on a good show. I've always put limits on Alice because I believe there's a certain amount of Alice that's a gentleman. He'd slit your throat, but he'd never swear at you. And there's always a punchline; he may kill you, but he'll slip on a banana peel. I get right-wing Christians down on me and I always ask them the question: 'If I was doing Macbeth, would it be OK?' And they always say that's Shakespeare so of course. I say that's about four times more violent than anything I do on stage."
Can Christians play bad characters?
As a hooker I used to tell myself that I was just acting. But lets think of enron and the mess that was created there. Some of those higher ups said they were born again believers.
I saw a sign on a used car lot that the owner was Christian. So is it in business anything goes? Where does one draw the line? Is there a line?
Hmm... It seems it's innocent what he does.
Personally I've been thinking about this stuff a bit, cause I pursue a future in music.
It must be clear that everything anyone does must at the very core be for the glory of God.
Within that framework there's a lot of freedom, but you must make sure you stay in that framework.
It's all about balance here.
Why do you play a bad role?
When it's for educating people about evil and when you put in a good morale at some point it seems fair enough. When you just do it cause you think being a bad guy is cool.. you're gonna need more than that.
You're going to have to have decent reasons for why you do things, because in the end you are accountable to God. So in black and white I think you can say:
When you play an evil role you can only justify it by a good Godly message that you're trying to get across, which you're actually, explicitly and clearly getting across.
Then there's also the issue of "how far can I go within this role?". When you're faking everything I think you can go pretty far, but it crosses a moral boundary when for example as an actor you have to kiss someone who's not your wife. Sin is sin, and it will still be sin when you're playing a role.
I don't know too much about Alice Cooper (besides having a nostalgic awesome love for "might as well be on mars"), but I guess he's playing a fair game.
I don't know about his intentions and about what exactly he does on stage, so aside from that, as long as he doesn't curse, use real violence or things like that, it's gonna be OK.
I guess it all depends....however there is a big difference in playing an evil charactor and actually doing something evil....
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
So to paraphrase what you have stated......it is ok to do what one does for a living, even if it represents evil, well I mean as long as one can justify it?
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
If that was directed at me:
You should put the justification first. The way you stated it you make it sound like you do whatever you want, and to make that possible you have to think of a justification.
That's not how I think about it.
First you've got to make sure you want to educate people by playing a bad character, and then you put it into practice. Besides educational purposes I don't think you have much future in playing a bad character
If that wasn't directed at me: Never mind ;-)
Was paraphrasing what you said that a person can do what they want to make money as long as they can justify it.
Alice Cooper seems to be doing pretty well.
Really it is an attitude out there, like the enron mess, shoot there was a bunch of people justifying why they did what they did to make the money. The question is if we work for a company even that well are doing wrong things, are we responsible to do something about it? I mean at that point we either try to stop it or we justify why we shouldn't.
My guess is if we all stood up to a lot of the things going on all around us, we wouldn't be sitting down much of the time. You see thats were the unity and strength comes from. We all need to be willing to stand with each other. If things are happening at work we should have a thread stating what is happening and asking people to stand with you. There is power in love and unity and that power can end a lot of suffering.
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
Oh we're certainly responsible for every single thing we do.
I'm very sure God sees through arguments like "but the authorities told me to", and I'm also sure that we ourselves realize that. If you're working in a place where you feel forced to sin in one way or the other you should simply quit. If you're going to make justifications at that moment you're trying to find excuses to continue in that sinful surrounding, and that's where people will most likely twist God's word and mess up.
or just playacting.
I think you can play a evil part without being evil....we would have no movies or stories or TV shows if nobody could play and evil charactor...
but doing evil is what is a sin and what is wrong.
Or am I missing the point of your questions?
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
I feel that a person has to use spiritual discernment when it comes to any life situation. No two Christians are exactly alike and as long as a person is not doing something that is directly against the word of God then I believe that God gives people some space to do what is right in there lives. Example, I have VERY strong convictions in my personal walk with the Lord that I choose not to eat meat. I've seen plenty of suffering and I refuse to eat meat knowing the reality of how many animals are treated. Can I say to another person that eating meat is a sin? No I can't, they are free to eat what they want even though in my walk I'm convicted not to.
When it comes to playing a role of a character or acting in a film for example. It's a fine line. It's acting and one could ask themselves, we need to consider even in Christian films. Who in the world would really want to play the role of Pontius Pilate or Judas Iscariot for example. Those are very dark characters and yet depending on the persons heart who plays the role, I don't believe that God would not be angry at them because it's needed to tell the story.
Some Christians are against watching films with any violence. I feel it depends on the film but as long as nobody is actually hurt then I feel watching a horror film is ok in my opinion.
A example though of a line crossed. If someone plays a role in a film though and they are saved in there daily lives then they have no business on film taking Gods name in vain like nearly all films have in them. You can act a role but what comes out of your mouth in regards to a direct curse against God is never needed. I feel a person can sing about worldly topics in music and it does not have to always be Christian music however if that person sings songs that blaspheme God or they curse left and right in the songs but they say they are Christian then again I would see that as a issue that they need to think about.
Personally I don't think that because a person is saved though, it does not mean that we must shut ourselves away in a box away from everything that is worldly.
A person can walk into a bar and sit at the bar along with people getting drunk and it's not a sin. If the person however drinks and gets drunk then suddenly it is a sin. Jesus himself went into some very dark places when his disciples questioned him as to why he would go into places of blackness. We are to go into the world but be not of the world.
It's a fine line but discernment is key always and if we are unsure as Christians then pray and God will give you the answer.
God Bless,
Micah
No matter what you struggle with in life or
what spiritual blackness tries to come against us
remember this verse.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.
What about characters who are demon-possessed, such as The Exorcist ot The Exorcism of Emily Rose? Do you think its possible to be a Christian and play a character that is demon-possessed?
Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums
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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I think it depends. First, you would want a Christian playing a demon-possessed person to be VERY STRONG and rooted in the Lord and the Word of God. It's tapping tapping into a very dark and dangerous spiritual realm.
Preferrably, the point of such a role would be to show how Jesus delivers one from such an evil spirit. A demon-possessed role should never be portrayed in a way as to glamorize the evil realm or make it appear to be good or okay.
GodzPrincess
Pink Cross Forum Admin
Ok, a distinction here:
You've got things that you can do while playing a role that are always going to be sinful, like sexual acts, taking God's name in vain, hurting people etc.
But when it comes down to simply playing the bad guy it depends on the person who's playing that role. There's nothing evil about playing an evil role when you've got a holy intention with it. When it damages your spiritual walk when you play that role you should be very careful. I do believe there can be something good in putting yourself in a such a risky zone, because it can be a sacrifice of your comfort to accomplish a greater good, but you should seek guidance by the Holy Spirit in that. You certainly would not want to play around with evil roles when you're not well prepared. If you want to act well you have to get in the skin of the character you're playing. For some that can be too dangerous and they might lose sight of God in doing so, for others it can be a very helpful spiritual lesson.
In short; I think that when you have an honest holy goal you want to accomplish you can go as far as you can go without feeling convicted of sin, within the moral boundaries I referred to in my first sentence.
Say we're making a movie of the entire bible, do we need pagans to play the bad charactors?
I don't know. As long as they're good actors, I think it would be okay for an unsaved people to play Biblical characters.
It might even bring a spirit of conviction on them.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Of course it would be ok, but not necessary. Christians can play bad charactors, it's being a hypocrite the right way! :)
It will be a debate either way unfortunately........... it would seem, while most seem to feel that it may be play acting........ what is God's opinion on the matter, which is what really counts. If we are going to be judged even for idol thoughts and we are not walking in God's plan which is to destroy the work of the enemy, then we are really being a part of the problem instead of resolving the problem, which all starts with God's people doing what we are called to do 24/7. We seem to like to find reasons why we can't or why we shouldn't, but if the truth is we are going to be judged even for every thought or deed or action, then there is no such thing as play acting as we are to be representing the light to the world, being the salt of the earth. We can dance around the issue and come up with all sorts of humanistic reasons why we think it is alright, but the fact of that matter is, that may not be salvation, but delusion.
We like to define salvation in many different ways and all of us may have an opinion, but lets be honest, the one who really gets to call whether we are saved is Jesus. It is very clear that we are to endure until the end to be saved! That does not sound very fluffy to me at least. We love to fall back on what is known as grace doctrine (hoping that we are ok), but that is a hope and then we start believing it and then we are all of sudden doing things that do not please God which at least I would thing would include play acting, especially if we know we are going to be held accountable for even out thoughts, let alone what we do in life.
Paul wrote at one point, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," which sort of tells me there is a lot more to it then what most of us like to think otherwise Paul would not have written what he did as it would have been an idol thought or waste of time and if it is true for Paul then more than likely it is true for us, whether we can justify it in our own little minds and hearts.
Is it a wonder why things are the way the are? We like to limit God's plan to just going up and saying a prayer, calling it 'being saved,' but that may not be reality. If salvation is not only knowing God's plan and then walking in God's plan then I really can see where the "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," comes into being.
As a person in ministry, if I take a person in the wrong direction, I get to be responsible for that person and them going in that wrong direction which would also include not telling them they need to work out there salvation with fear and trembling and as you know most pastors do not tell people that is what needs to be done.
This is a scary conversation as all sorts of thoughts about what salvation is, when it is really only God and Jesus knows who really is saved and who is not saved and this thread should give everyone pause for thought and seek God for what the truth really is. Do we believe what we want to believe because its easy or are we believing it because someone might agree with us or are we believing it because it is what God said to us directly. My answer is I wouldn't put a lot of stock in anything that didn't come directly from God, especially on what salvation really is.
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
Ok, you made some good points, but I don't think we're really talking too much from our personal perspective here. If it were up to me I'd think nothing was sin and we would all have one big party of happiness, but God doesn't work like that and doesn't get all the glory He deserves like that, so when we're discussing these restrictions I'm certainly trying to be biblical about it. I think/hope that's the way we all think about it.
You made some good points, but they only seem to be valid when someone is acting to please him or herself.
I really can't imagine God being dishonored by someone's playing an evil character just to get a message across. This is what it all boils down to: 1 corinthians 10:31
"Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."
As long as you don't sin you can do e v e r y t h i n g you feel like doing as long as it's for the glory of God. As far as I know the bible nowhere discusses anything that can be related to this topic (acting), so we should beware being non biblical about it, but at the same time I think it's a common sense issue.
Imagine some missionaries playing out the bible to some illiterate kids in a far away place who have never heard of the bible or the gospel. Somebody has to be Judas. Somebody has to be the unrepentant sinner who gets condemned to display God's wrath. Do you really think God will condemn that person for playing an evil part?
Ok so your saying it is alright to represent evil?
There are a lot of scriptures that tell us clearly that we are to put off every appearance of evil. Let's face it, we are supposed to be the example as Jesus was the example. We are supposed to be representing the very will of God. Granted, when one comes to Christ they are probably more on the carnal end of things, but we are to exhort one another in our holy calling and purpose. Acting evil or representing evil even if acting is not a holy calling and purpose? Granted we can try and justify it, but then again ..........
Sin comes from an archery term, which means not hitting dead center, so literally when we do not walk in the Spirit, we are in sin, because the only way to hit dead center is by walking in the Spirit. I would be pretty safe to say that even acting an evil part would would be not representing either the Son of God or God or the body of Christ, but representing ( ). Go figure?
One of the things that Jesus died for was so that whatever we put our hands to will increase as we carry the Spirit of God. In other words if we put our hands to evil it will bring increase. If we are bringing and increase to evil, I would be concerned seriously about how saved we are at that point? That wouldn't take much common sense to figure out? The point is we have a chance every day to get it right, but if we continue with the nonsense, where are we really at?
Now here is what is far worse. We are all examples of what salvation is supposed to be. People watch what we do. People see how we live and are an influence. Do we use God's Spirit to bring an influence of evil? Acting is representing something. An actor or actress represents a part. Look at Tom Hanks, the Christian community was about to stone him for acting in a part in the Da Vinci code and he never even said he was even a believer. On the other hand we have a person professing to be a believer and acting on stage like the root of all evil and thats ok? Ah..... you were saying about common sense?
By the way I am fairly certain we are not even to play the devils advocate? "Imagine some missionaries playing out the bible to some illiterate kids in a far away place who have never heard of the bible or the gospel."
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
Hehe, I'm quite sure we won't be playing evil roles in heaven.
But I'm very sure it can be a helpful tool in this fallen world.
And I would most certainly draw a line between actual evil and acting evil.
If the actor can't divide the two he shouldn't do it. If he can and has a holy purpose with it he should.
I really don't know why this is such an issue.
Maybe I'm ignorant but to me it's as simple as:
Why do you want to play an evil part?
"For educational purposes to put God's glory in display"
Ok, but you're sure this role will not make you sin and come between you and God?
"yes"
Problem solved.
The issue here is if it is sinful to do so. I don't have the experience,
but I can see myself writing a song from the perspective of a fallen unsaved person for example.
If I don't feel convicted of sin and made it very clear between me and God that it's for His Glory then what in the world should hold me back?
I get it that it's dangerous to play with evil and that we should stay as far away from it as possible, but there are limits. We all walk in the same streets as rapists and murderers. Maybe we shake their hands sometimes. We all walk in a world with pornography and evil in advertisements, but at a certain moment you will have to say "the benefits are higher than the risks". The archangel stayed away from Satan, so he would not be spotted by his evil. But I really don't think that when the actor is a mature believer he should stay away from playing an evil part when there is souls to be won by that. To be frank with you I think it's sin to not play that role when you honestly feel called to do so.
Another argument;
Alice cooper can surely reach a whole different crowd of people by the way he acts. Surely a lot of them came in touch with the christian faith through him. When we back off too much out of the dark-ish parts of this world we leave people in the process. So I'm encouraging everyone who is strong and courageous enough to get inside of that darkness, to be that light.
double post
that if you watch any tv or go to any movie or read any book the plot is basically the hero fighting the bad guys in some form or another....even the anti hero fights someone less noble.
If you are so opposed to people playing "bad charactors" you should not watch tv, read a book or go to the movies ever.
God is glorifed by how we live our lives and how we take Him into our relationships and communities....its all about the relationship both vertically and horizonatally....
this is such a small hill to choose to die on...I don't think God cares a whole lot if you play the serial killer on tv, if you love Him and honor Him with your life. I tell the strippers all the time that God doesn't care how they earn their living as much as He cares about the state of their heart and that He wants a relationship with them...
Just my opinion
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
I think s. carrol has a misunderstanding of the scriptures, at least it is evident here.
The point of it is, is two fold. First if we are going to be judged for even idol thoughts or deeds, then representing the part of evil probably is worse than idol thoughts or deeds?
Secondly, we are all supposed to be an example to others. Yes, admittedly Jesus hung with people like myself, but I am pretty sure He was not acting like people like myself? How do people know that we belong to Christ? Is it by our words or deeds even? Do people know by the place where we work?
I personally was surprised that Alice Cooper was even a believer. That certainly is not what he portrays on stage. I mean it is his show, he owns it and runs it, so I am assuming somewhat he can do what he wants on stage?
Let's try another example? The leaders of Enron. There were many believers in the place that new what they were doing was illegal and no one really said anything except for one person. The point is , if we work somewhere and we are believers then are we supposed to allow evil? I mean how long do we overlook it, because we need a paycheck? One could insert a lot of examples here, but for the lack of space I won't get too deeply in it. Government? Lawyers? All sorts of things come to mind.
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
Don't confuse art w/real life, also you have to have a basic undestanding of the interpratation of art before you can make a judgement of it. Alice Cooper decided to stay out of the christian music scene, I think that was wise! What in the world do idle thoughts or exectutives at Enron have anything to do w/art?
I believe that as Christians we must be aware that God is not sitting in the sky with a hammer ready to beat us up over every move that we make. God looks to the persons heart is really they key thing to keep in mind. Remember that many pointed their fingers at Jesus himself and tried to say that not all his actions were of a Holy intent. The key thing I feel that we all should keep in mind again is, what is the persons heart, intent when they play such a role.
Example.. Let's say someone plays a role of one of the Lords deciples in a Christian film. The first person plays the role of Moses but in his daily life, in his heart he does not serve God and in his heart the film is just a film, a role and that is it. Another actor plays the role of Judas in the same film however in his daily life he serves the Lord and loves Jesus with all his heart. The question comes in, who in the picture of things is truely doing that which is not good in the eyes of God and who is truly lost. It's clear that a role that could be seen as evil is really just that, a role. What God looks to though is the person, the heart of the person behind that role, that is what I believe.
God looks to the hearts of his people and what are actions truly stand for. I don't feel it's as black and white for anyone to just say that if someone plays a "evil" role in a film that, that means God will be angry with them.
Micah 777
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.
...after these topics get so long, I like to go back to the top and remember what the original question was.
Can a Christian play bad characters?
May I rephrase the question... Can a person who's LORD (King... Boss... Master... etc...) play a BAD character?
I wonder... how would you all be able to sit back and say, "Yep... 'so-and-so' just thanked God for their Oscar Award for the movie 'Booty-Call'..."
It's the Lord thing that I'm interested in... Is playing a bad character serving two masters?
Chadwick
Pink Cross Moderator
"Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."
James 1:12
Chad, me thinks your taking this beyond the point of portaying a bad character and into promoting bad characters.
haha... i have been know to drive things deeper than they were intended...
and so... i guess if thats it... then... yes. it's ok...
i mean... it would have been sweet to play the character of satan in 'the passion of the Christ'...
or...
the bad anakin skywalker... come on!
Chadwick
Pink Cross Moderator
"Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."
James 1:12
It's something that I feel everyone is going to see in a different way to some degree. I don't feel there is any black and white answer for this. It's almost like trying to compare two Christians tastebuds and try to figure out why two people who both Love Christ with all their hearts, like different foods. That is how I see the subject anyway, yeah I'm a bit deep too. haha
Personally speaking I could not and would not play a character that was someone who was like Judas or the devil as a role in a film against God in anyway. It's just something that I could not feel comfortable with.
I don't feel playing a bad character in a film though (depending on the persons heart) is serving two masters. It's a role but I do agree that the person needs to seek the Lord and use discernment when it comes to making that choice on the role.
Some roles there is no way I would personally do and others I would be ok with.
This is a great subject though, I've enjoyed this.
Micah 777
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.
And personally I think we need to get to the heart of the answer: The answer lies in learning to seek God Himself instead of trying to use our human wisdom and understanding. God is the one who makes the call, not us. So we need to learn to turn to Him and seek Him for answers instead of trying to figure it out or decide for ourselves, or based on what others think. The only opinion that really matters is the One who created us and lives inside of us.
Is Jesus Lord of our lives? Have we consecrated ourselves to Him? Have we made the decision to do whatever He calls us to do? Then we will learn to seek His will and do what He says. Too often we Christians still want to make our own decisions, and as long as it seems good/righteous, then we will ask God to bless it. That is not the way God wanted to do things. It's not about whether or not its "good", but whether or not God has called us to do it. We need to learn to submit to His will and His ways, not our own. After all, "the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure, who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
I believe what it basically boils down to is the Holy Spirit's conviction on the matter. Perhaps some can, perhaps others can't. Even if Scripture does not address it, if the Holy Spirit is telling you not to play a certain character, and you do anyway, then you have sinned against Him.
If there is any doubt in your mind, then you should not do it. As the apostle Paul sad in Rom. 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin. On the other hand,if you have prayed about it, and God gives you a peace, then it is okay.
I know that if it would help lead someone to Christ, I would have no problem playing a character like Satan or Judas or a godless person. Intent and motive are everything....as long as you're not glorifying the sin, I don't see the problem.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Spot on BB!
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
I've met christians who underwent their own personal "exorcism", one of the people I am referring to is a pastor's wife and her children will testify of the change they saw in their mother post-deliverance...
personally I think playing "evil" characters comes down to a heart motive, I personally am quite strict with entertainment, at the same point in time characters can be used to reach people...
So I guess I believe there can be spiritual repercussions for "playing" evil characters, and its only the covering of God that protects us from such repercussions. Ultimately though I think a person should examine themselves and ask the question "what are the things in my life that is hindering my relationship with God?" or something like it.