VERY well spoken. I couldn't agree more. Not many of us like phoniness. Even the God we serve! I know the key really is loving on them. Letting these women (and men) know how much God loves them and how HE sees them through the blood of Christ. And ya know, you may never know til you get to Heaven (b/c even though I can't back it up Scripturaly, I think that part of our reward will be seeing people in heaven that we impacted), who you've really reached. And the cool thing is that one plants the seed, another waters, but GOD gives the increase, amen? And each person gets their reward for their work. I know that just in those times where you may grow a bit weary & discouraged wondering if you are really making a difference, God will come through and SHOW you that you are, b/c I know you are more than you see!

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"Neither do I condemn you." John 8:11

I hope that no one is getting the idea that I am for disbanding the church. That would not be scriptural, and in fact as much abuse as I have gone through in churches, I still see the spiritual need for going to church.

I am for any believer leaving a church and starting their own if they percieve that the church is not living up to it's job, which is to show love. If a church is not showing love than it is not a church of God, but of man. Again I speak of the leadership not so much as to the congregation. I have seen typically most congregations follow how the leadership behaves.

As to just hanging out with those who are on fire for God. Again that can be just as phony as anything else. I have seen scores of people act like they where are fire for God when at church or around other christians but it did not change how they interact with the non-christian or that they where willing to demonstrate love by helping out others.

Just as an example, this is what my wife and I experienced from a so called on fire believer. Here we are, just having moved into a mobile home, from living for the last month or more out of the back end of a pick up truck. We was homeless, but we managed to be given a small piece of land and a mobile home. But no water, electricity or heat. It was better than the back end of the pick-up truck though. So, months went by and we managed to find a bit of food here and there and now it is the dead of winter. We still have no heat, what we did was live in one of the bedrooms. We closed the door, stuffed towels at the bottom to keep the cold from coming in and since candles where like 10 for a dollar, we burned 4 or 5 candles at night as we slept for extra warmth.

Well at some point we went to church, not asking or looking for help. Somehow or another we where asked about our living conditions and back then, I didn't know christianese enough to lie. Well the comments I got was, did you know that you could sufficate to death from affixation. I said it was that or die in our sleep. When all was said and done, they said God bless you, hope to see you next week.

So my opinion of those who call themselves on fired for God is a crock. It's just another christianese term which means that in church I am going to jump up and down with the music, I will come to all the services and extra services. I will talk like I love God with all my heart, I will give lots of money, volunteer just about all of my time, but not really care about people who are considered lower class citizens.

That is why I say, it's time for christians to start coming out of these money making factories who make programs ontop of programs to make themselves feel spiritual and don't really lift a finger to actually help out the needy. If there is a church that does actually help out the less fortunate is more like the equivelent of throwing someone a nickle and saying, there you go, don't expect more and make the nickle stretch because it's all your getting.

"The approach as important as the message", actually I think the approach is more important than the message, because more people would recieve Jesus as their saviour if christians showed true love and not the christianese love.

Well ,you guys it looks like a whhole can of worms I opened. I was sharing my thoughts. And no we don't go to church to get the Liver Quiver or the Goose Bumps either. I go for fellowship & I do not want to do away with the assembling of it. I do see that their are also many there who are on fire for the Lord & I ,most likely gravitate to those who do. But I know G-d has me their for a reason no matter what is going on at that moment. I rather have my mind on the Lord & just worship Him in praise & read His word & get into the study of the Word as my pastor gives the msg. Hey don't shoot the messanger, his desire is to see people rise up & to be mightily used by G-d.
And to hear about me sharing about the PinkCross Foundation & what we are about. many of my other pastors I shared with they are all for it. Even my pastor on Fridaynights in Costa Mesa. I share witth Shelley & Garrett about the Fellowship. Yes there are those in the Church who are rising up. For those who I mentioned before, we gotta be an encouragement. There are many hurting in the church, not even the pastor whom they have them pray for ,are not feeling that its not worth it.
We are all ministers in the body , I mean you those in the PinkCross who are baptists, Messianic Believers, Pentecostal, Charismatic, those from a NonDenom Calvary Chapel background( Like myself & also a somewhat Messianic). Ok I admit it J/k kidding
yeah I know some may disagree with me on hear or even in the church. Thats fine ,one thing we agree on is the foundations of our faith, the One who died for our sin, I believe G-d & His power & He is mighty to save. That being said I wanted to respond to my comment or my thoughts. Hey danyl you can agree or disagree. But one thing all I was sharing was my thoughts & what I saw & see to this day. I almost let that, hold me back but what you shared, I understand what you are saying I been a part of that & I seen it 1st hand you are not alone.
But lets not let that eat us up on the inside. Even I know who is there that want to be there & those who are going thru the motions or those who can care less but was dragged by someone & their are those who are seeking ,who need help.
We need to pray for our pastors & those in position in the church or in ministry actively. That being said, hey I'll tellyou what its better to hear me share this in person than on the internet. But this would do. Enough about that

I want to get back to this topic : well what ? Do you guys think what
to do ,what to do .On how to reach out to the sex industry.
One thing I saw that was an example from Shelley @ Erotica LA, & even with Garrett was that they went out of their way to confont individuals in a friendly manner. Why ? Because I was there, I saw how even those who really hated Shelley ,Shelley would go & say Hi to them & just show them love. And one thing is be who G-d wants you to be. Be real & yeah they (the men & women in the Sex Industry can pick you out right away, If you are serious or just playin the part.) One thing they see while we were their is the love we shared, & the way we presented ourselves. I remember Garrett shooting the breeze with some of the people at the other booths before we started to setup just being friendly & you know what during the event they came to see what we are all about & they saw what we were doing was right on. To break the Ice, with others & to see were they are coming from. I had some in the industry I know. And those whom find out know were I am coming from, they took an interest of what we are doing. Its just being real with them as a believer yes ,they see the false love. But you know those same people who see & know you are a Christian & its like oh great here they come. And to get to know each other you tend to break the walls of communication. With people in the Adult industry you see some who are set in their ways in this biz, you have those who are just doing this for the money ,& rarley doing it for the sex. But all in all they are doing it for the fame ,for that high,to fill that void in their life ,to rebel & many other things.
Its hard to explain I think you can come up with a game plan, the predetermined way you will approach things. I see that before going I had to seek the L-rd in Prayer,& fasting to be in His Word. To understand that the L-rd will be in that place. And to know that its His power & might & not ours. ( Yes there is Christianese I put right here). But when it comes down to the actual Outreach, the L-rd has other plans & were He will position you.

Technique is to be in prayer
Ask for Wisdom, Get into the Word.
Fast if you have to.
have an Idea about what you are getting into.
And be filled with the Holy Spirit,
Let Holy Spirit lead you in what to do ,were to go ,& what to
say.
I'll tell ya its totally different, to actually be there ministering & talking to the people, than saying it.

I saw 1st hand how Shelley would handle herself among others, how she presented herself. And it was a lead by example approach. And she lead by example.
And I saw 1st hand how others followed suit & saw the Lord moving in each of us. Thats why I am hear part of this ministry & thats why I am going with her & April to the Dungeon next month. I see that the Lord is doing a mighty work in PinkCross. I have love for these people & for those whom I care for in this industry. But I do have to be flexible also in the ministry. And not just a "Porn Pastor" but to be able to minister to the needs of the people. In the industry or not ,or on the street.
It may be hard to explain to some. But if the Lord is calling you ot this type of outreach. I must say to do your homework know whats going down. Be equipped to handle the onslaught of this enemy. Because this is also were a spiritual battle that is taking place. And we need to be mindful of our enemy. And what is going down. This is not for everybody to reach out to this industry. But I also encourage those to pray for us & pray for those in the industry, & those caught up in sexual sin & porn addiction. I have to say I confronted some who were church people @Erotica LA. It shows that there is something going down when you see a Christian or a religious person filling there bags up with porn stuff.

Also I have talked with men trapped in being addicted to porn. I know this by the way they presented themselves. Becuase I was in Men's Sexual Purity" I understood were they are coming from & the sex worker themselves. Because we were former sex workers. ANd you don't have to be, but its good to school yourself on this industry & get educated ,thats why we were there to not only reach out to the industry & to the fans ,but to educate to both letting them know their rights as a sex worker. And to know the health issues, & also sharing hope & to show by example Christ's love to them thru us. And they saw this.
Don't go with a preconcieved notion that you are going to win some for Jesus. And some do that. But before doing something like this as an outreach make sure the Lord is in it. Make sure that you seek Him before going. And be humble, also be nice to those who slam you to your face.
We had people who talked trash about Shelley & the PinkCross on the internet, but to see us there ,they were affraid to approach us & they kept away from afar off.
Pray for them & those whom you have reached out to .

And pray for us, who are going out to the Outreaches & for Shelley who is going forth & being used by the L-rd to reach out personally to the one whom are contacting her. As well as the men who are reaching out & not only talking with me but also with Scott.

And the women in this ministry whom have are mothers themselves reaching out to the other females as well.

well I will add more in the future ...

But I thank all of you on this forum, for sharing your insights & your agreements or disagreements. Its all good

I just thank you all & you also danyl777 ,you got something going on there. Let the Lord lead you & use you mightily ,& for the Moderator
here. thanks

lets be encouraged & encourage each other in the Body of Messiah

L-rd Bless ,You all

~Johnny Trejo~

I may have to put my message on here what I shared last week with the team. Well you guys take care...

[quote="carolemarie"]I think that we need to show the same love and concern for those in the body as we do for those outside of it, (Like prostitutes and porn performers for example). If we are willing to love the porn performer and, come along side them and help them walk out in freedom, why would we not be willing to do the same for our brothers and sisters who are caught in the trap of religion?It is just as hard to walk away from as working in porn. And that loveless religion is just as spirit crushing and soul killing as turning tricks.
We need to love them too.[/quote]
Amen!!

I did also want to share about an email that I got several weeks ago that I just had to respond to. I belong to a homeschool group and one of the mothers sent an email to me that was sent to her from someone else... the email speaks for itself:

"My name is ________. I wrote to ABC (online) concerning a program called "The Practice". In ...the episode, one of the lawyer's mothers decided she was gay and wanted her son to go to court and help her get a marriage license so she could marry her 'partner'. I sent the following letter to ABC...and really did not expect a reply, but did get one.

My original message was:
ABC is obsessed with the subject of homosexuality. I will no longer watch any of your attempts to convince the world that homosexuality is ok. The Practice can be a fairly good show, but last night's program was so typical of your agenda. You picked the 'dufus' of the office to be the one who was against the idea of his mother being gay, and made him look like a whiner because he had convictions. This type of mentality calls people like me a 'gay basher'. Read the first chapter of Romans (that's in the bible) and see what the apostle Paul had to say about it...He, God, and Jesus were all 'gay bashers'. What if she'd fallen in love with her cocker spaniel? Is that an alternative lifestyle? (By the way, the Bible speaks against that too.)
____________(name of writer)

Here is ABC's (alleged) replay from the ABC online webmaster:
"How about getting your nose out of the Bible (which is ONLY a book of stories compiled by MANY different writers hundreds of years ago) and read the declaration of independence (what our nation is built on), where it says, 'All men are created equal,' and try treating them that way for a change!
Or better yet, try thinking for yourself and stop using an archaic book of stories as your lame crutch for your existence. You are in the minority in this country, and your boycott will not affect us at ABC or our freedom of statement."

____________ reply to ABC:
"Thanks for your reply. From your harsh reply, evidently I hit a nerve. I will share it with all with whom I come in contact. Hopefully ______________ newspaper will include it in one of their columns and I will be praying for you.
Note: Wouldn't satan just love it if people stopped using the Bible for a crutch? Please resend this to everyone in your mailbox"

My (Tonya's) response:
"Hi, this email was an interesting one. I felt compelled to respond. Honestly, I do believe many of us christians have 'good intentions', but unfortunately, when we get rather zealous trying to stamp out the immorality in our country, I think we go about it all wrong. I do see and understand how we think we are being a light as christians when we do things like the story (above), since we are called to be a light to the world, but we still do not seem to understand the heart of what Jesus modeled for us...somehow we've missed it.
When I think of the different stories of Jesus, I think of how agape loving and compassionate and non-judgmental of the sinners He was. His harshest words and judgments were reserved for the religious leaders of His day--calling them hypocrites and white-washed tombs and vipers (see Matt. 23), the ones who "knew" God and His laws, not the sinners. (Although He did say those who did not believe in Him, who rejected Him, would be judged and condemned same as Sodom and Gomorrah, but that is not the point here).

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him" (John 3:18)
"Jesus said, 'It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.'" (Matt. 9: 12-13).

We have to realize something... "Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live according to the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace. THE SINFUL MIND IS HOSTILE TO GOD. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, NOR CAN IT DO SO. Those controlled by the sinful nature CANNOT please God." (Romans 8:5-8)

So we need to remember...that those who do not believe God, they are ruled by their sinful nature, are hostile to God, and do not submit to God's Law, NOR CAN THEY DO SO. It is futile to write letters and call and boycott unbelievers about their sinful behaviors that upset us believers. It won't change them, because they are not God's people, they don't have the Holy Spirit to help them see...they are not able to submit to God's Law! Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers. (2 Cor. 4:4).
And more importantly, that is not what Jesus modeled to us. He said, "...when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to Myself." (John 12:32). Our job as believers is to share the good news of Jesus-- His love for sinners. His compassion. His kindness and patience. He is the One who draws them to Himself, if we will do as He did...walk in compassion and love to them...be like honey to bees.

We also need to remember that it is not our job to convict people. Jesus did not go around pointing fingers, complaining to sinners about their immoral, bad behavior and fuss at them, telling them what they were doing was wrong. That is what we do as believers...we go around to the media and courts and all these places and tell them to stop doing stuff we don't like. Frankly, we turn them off and get them on the defensive, rather than draw them to Jesus. Our job is to pray (make sure our own hearts are right, repent first!), seek guidance and wisdom from the Holy Spirit on what to do and what to say and when, and do it with compassion and love. When we go about trying to "convict" people and make them change their ways and stop doing bad stuff, we are actually usurping the job of the Holy Spirit-- we seize His job, presumptuously taking over His authority, His right, His purpose.
Jesus said, "When He (the Holy Spirit) comes, He will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment; in regard to sin, because men do not believe in Me; in regard to righteousness, because I (Jesus) am going to the Father, where you can see Me no longer; in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned." (John 16:8-11)

We need to back off and get out of the Holy Spirit's territory! We are just in God's way. The Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of doing His job, but we are in the way and preventing the work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of sinners. Our job is to pray, and being led by the Holy Spirit, to plant seeds--the word of God-- lovingly and compassionately reaching out to the world. (yes, I know I keep saying the words love and compassion!)

Romans 2:1-4 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them, and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of His kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you towards repentance?"

First of all, realize the scripture in Romans 2 is referring to Romans 1:18-32, where the list of sins includes homosexuality, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossips, slanderers, insolent, arrogant, boastful, disobedient to parents....I do know the Church as a whole does struggle with a number of the ones just mentioned. And the verses in chapter 2 say that we cannot pass judgment cuz we do the same things. And warns us that we are showing contempt for God's kindness, etc, when we judge others, and that we will not escape His judgment against us.

We know that God does not hear our prayers when we have sin in our hearts/lives. It is no wonder then that the Church has not been able to stem the tide of immorality. We may be frustrated at more and more courts allowing homosexuals to be legally married or obtain civil unions and be recognized the same as traditional married couples (among the many issues we are concerned about), but the blame does not belong to the liberal judges, or the activist homosexuals, or atheists. The blame belongs to God's people, us believers, who do not walk in light and love, because we have not walked in holiness...we have not been keeping our hearts right and pure before God. We the Church need to repent-- to turn away from our own sins first, then we will be able to be a light to the world. They will be drawn to the light of Jesus--the love of Jesus-- in us, as the world continues to get darker.

So instead of writing letters complaining of objectionable material or going to courts or legislators trying to stop them from allowing homosexuals to get married, if we Christians will get on our knees before the Lord, and pray:
Psalm 139:23-24 "Search me...and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me and lead me the way everlasting."

2 Chronicles 7:13-15 "When I (God) shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land, or send a plague among My people, if My people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place."

Feedback?
Tonya

I think that we need to show the same love and concern for those in the body as we do for those outside of it, (Like prostitutes and porn performers for example). If we are willing to love the porn performer and, come along side them and help them walk out in freedom, why would we not be willing to do the same for our brothers and sisters who are caught in the trap of religion?It is just as hard to walk away from as working in porn. And that loveless religion is just as spirit crushing and soul killing as turning tricks.
We need to love them too.

I do agree that we need to stop harping about the failures of the church and those who just sit there keeping the pews warm but don't go out and share the gospel...I will admit, I have been in and out of church all of my life and have not led one person to the Lord, sigh. Not one. I am one of those who was like a baby bird, kept saying "feed me"...I didn't feel worthy to share cuz I kept struggling with my own issues and never really felt like I had a real relationship with God or any great changes in my life...thus no testimony to share how God changed me. So who was I to go out there trying to share the gospel? But thank goodness God has not given up on me and has been doing quite a work on my heart, especially since January...I can look back and see how much He has changed my thinking and is slowly (or not so slowly :)) changing me...and even using me thru this forum. Now my deafness is not a barrier, yeahhh! I can read and write quite well! :)

I do think Johnny, you seem to be saying instead of pointing fingers at the church and complaining about what is wrong with christians who are not going out into the world sharing the gospel...you are saying we just need to focus on praying for them and know that God will take care of them and deal with them in His way and His timing, right? And just focus on ourselves and do what we feel God puts on our hearts to do to step out into the world and reach people ourselves and not wait on the church people...is that what you are trying to say?

danyll...I do have mixed feelings about the idea of leaving the "religious" church and starting our own "real" churches...we need to realize that is exactly what has been done throughout history that has led to the body of christ being divided into hundreds of different denominations and thousands upon thousands of different churches... somehow God needs to get His Body of Christ to become one, to be in unity. We do seem to have that (unity) here. :) Let's just be careful about continued division among the body of christ...where we keep leaving a church and establishing new ones. Rather, why don't we seek God and ask Him...there may be one already existing that He can guide us to. Or if there isn't, then perhaps there may be a need to set one up that is truly after His heart...but seek Him first about it, rather than doing it ourselves. Ok? Hope you understand my point. I do think God is trying to bring His children together and bring about unity with those who truly love Him and have a heart after Him... we will have to watch out for those who seek to make us compromise truth, like those who are saying all religions lead to the same god (as my mother unfortunately believes), or such "new age" concepts.
How God will accomplish His goal of bringing His children together in unity is beyond me, sigh, but let's seek Him for that...we know nothing is too hard for Him!

I came back to this discussion to say to Johnny Trejo, that it was not my intention to put down your thoughts as you had expressed them. It has been weighing on my mind that what I have said could be taken the wrong way. The things that you have said carry a lot of wisdom in them. But even in your wisdom their are serious issues with the modern church. So much so that I think it would be far better for true believers to remove themselves from the establishment and begin real churches and not just go with the flow.

Well I don't fully agree. What's the point of going to a loveless church. A church in which the only thing you are to them is a sack of money to be exploited. And I am really tired of hearing things like theirs nobody perfect, which is just christianese for, I know what I am doing is wrong, but I intend on still doing it.

I have experienced and seen many people heavely abused by the church. I have seen people come out of the church worse than when they went in. I have also seen more love amongst the non-christians and satan worshipers than I have seen amongst christians. When I say satan worshipers I am not over exagerating because I use to hang out with a witch who was by far more caring and loving than any christian I have ever met.

And it's not just the people sitting in the pews because it is the leaderships responsibility to lead. I don't care if it's only the pastor doing the right thing, but usually it's the pastor who is acting like a jerk. Being selfish and self centered. Only caring about his programs, his agenda. As if God would be behind any thing like that. Contrary to modern beliefs we don't need God to tell us His will, nor do we need holy ghost goose bumps to lead us in any certain direction. God said His word is good for instruction and doctrine. God has already told us what His will is. It's his will that we take care of the poor and outcast. Jesus by his life demonstrated how we should live. A life in which we walk with the porn stars, prostitutes, drugees, drug dealers, pimps, etc. We take these people out to eat, we try to be friends with them expecting nothing in return.

In my opinion I think it would be a great idea if those who really want to live for God would leave the modern church and start their own church. One in which people demonstrate real love and preach unconditional love. Another concept that seems to have faded away.

hey,guys whats up. I ya what you are all saying. Yes the unchurched are not stupid ,they are wise on how a Christian is & alot of people who are to off to Jesus are also the one's who were raised inthe church ,raised in the Christian home. I know I was their a few years ago. yes I see even in the pews ,others around me sitting there .Almost like getting fat off the hog on their relationship with the Lord. And not do nothing about. Their was a long period of time when I came back to the Lord & I would feel the sence of heartache because everyone are being a pew sitter & not do nothing for the Kingdom. I don't know how many times I hear the message from my pastor that I study under. Him saying !!!!What Are You Guys Doing, Sittiing in the Pews, Are you like baby birds that ssay feed me, & he learned this from his pastor ,he would say what are you guys doing here getting fat on the word & not leaning out. Not getting out & sharing the Gospel. To hearing my pastor share this & his main point of all this is don't be lazy get out there. Or BORN AGAIN LAZY. I heard the excuses & I know the reactions from people. They get turned off by the fact that you need to work out your salvation as Paul talked about in Scripture.
Not Working your way for salvation but as a believer, you have you would want to share with those whom don't know Jesus, We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesusfor good work, which God prapared beforehand that we should walk in them. As it is said in Ephesians 2:10, and you know what we forget as a Believer in Christ that verse. The walk of a Christian is a hard one, Jesus knows about this. And yes we as a church have dropped the ball. I can see why now the church wants to accomodate the world by conforming to the world especially what going on with this new Doctrine that is "Emerging" in the churches of the day by not preaching the Cross or addressing the sin issue. Their was a time I was fed up with what is going on in the church.With people getting lazy ,& clocking in & clocking out like working in a factory , thats how it is with people attending the church ,I did my time, I act holy in service , but now live like the devil themselves during the week.
I now have stopped putting my focus on ,"DO YOU KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH THE CHURCH TODAY" or You have those saying who are Believers themselves saying :

& "YOU CHRISTIANS THIS OR YOU CHRISTIANS THAT YOU ARE THE PROBLEM ONWHATS GOING ON IN THE CHURCH"

You know what lets also stop with this stuff & start taking that step of faith & giving it to the Lord , & start the ministry ourselves. Even cleaning the toilets is a ministry & God will bless it.

Hey guys, lets encourage those who are struggling in their walk or those who are going through it & yes those who are just going through the motions ,or those who are just too ,I mean way too comfortable in their walk to were they are in their "Holy Huddle". I almost got into that a few months ago.

My friends I hear ya especially ,when it comes to those who see the Christians as a bunch of hypocrites , a bunch of Playas out their.
And wont step foot in the church let alone in the foyer of the main sanctuary. Why ? because of past hurt , or because so & so did this or that . Or because their are a bunch of hypocrites there so thats why I don't go , or the all they want is your money speech.

Hey guess what its a good place to be...WHy because the church should be a hospital for the Walking wounded for those who have no hope left. Or who are at the end of their rope.

I say a good place for those in the church. Because who better would cut or crack the tuffest nuts in that building is the Lord. He has that big nutcracker he will deal with those who are just playing, church or just acting the part He will deal with those.

I am still in the church, & I will say hear one of the biggest churches in California that has Dove for a symbol that reps who we are.
I will say that I will not let those in the chruch get to me. Why ? because I know they ( Some people who sit their have all this bible & so do I not using it, not applying ), still not groing in the Lord. What we are doing is unlike what the church is accustommed to. And who hear what I do for the Lord & what the Lord got me out of are the ones who get it.
Those up tight who live in the church bubble don't know what its like outside & when they get exposed to they start getting that legalist mentality to them. Well I say good . The Holy Spirit has my cell phone number ,HE will get ahold of me. I rather be a person who will rise up & move & stand warrior than to hear well you need to do this you need to do that ,don't do this , from those who don't know what its like to get into the gutter to put the foot work in. Ministry is hard & the enemy will come full bore with both BArrells blasting.
But thats ok , I know my God has the battle its His & not ours. We don't deserve the Glory & those who make that descision to give there lives to the Lord ,Jesus knows , THis is not a ball game no one should be keeping score. How many did you lead to Christ.

Lets be real as the 1st believers were Lets get back to the Way.

Lets shake it up a bit lets get out there lets encourage those in the church lets who are comfortable, & Fire up those who are timid.

And for the those who are unchurched let show them that genuineness of a believer. Lets really love the unlovely..

Not only are you guys ministering to them , & even if they tell you to get lost , you are still getting ministered to at the same time.

Lets present the Gospel while loveing them & not sugar coat it.
because that goes along way even to those who are turned off of religion, those who are of the street & yes those who are in the Sex Industry, & also those who are the hardest people to face , are those in our own families...

I hope i didn't lose you guys while typing thids or for you reading this

I was addressing this to the believer & how others in the church & how we need to step it up for the Lord ,amoung those who dont want to do nothing .

The fellowship I mentioned my pastors know what I do & they are all for it. Its just those in the church who are sitting on the sidelines ,not getting up & knowing what it is really like to live for the Lord & to really be used by Him.

You guys pray for those in the church ,& you give it to the Lord & He will take care of it. Lets go were He is calling us & lets

Keep On Truckin...For Jesus.

~Johnny Trejo~ :-D

AMEN to that!
All the glory is to God, not us! We just point the way to God

I really don't like it when people say "I saved that person"....people need to realize that we DON"T save people, GOD and only God saves people.

We are just a vessel, a tool to be used by Him to plant the seed...we need to be real and to love as Jesus loves us (though it is harder to do sometimes than anything else in this world) This site is awesome:)

Lord use me more:):)

luv and hugs
prayers and blessings
carrie

YESSS!!! You are so right, the unchurched is NOT stupid. They know a fake when they see it. And youre right, the motives are totally off. Many want to tell people about Jesus so they can say 'I got this person saved'. No love no where. And im really feeling you about us going all overseas and not helping the people on the street in our area. You should write a book on 'christianize' with all the cliches and crazy jargon...lol

LOVE IS KEY!!! - Amen

But it's not just sex workers that need to be reached like that. Based on reputable christian statistics, the typical person that recieves Jesus as their saviour are people who grew up in the church. As statistics go, they say very few non-church people get saved.

From personal experience I can see why, which relates to the comments that have been made here. It's not just sex workers that can spot a phony christian a mile away. Since the church for the most part had rejected me because of poverty, difference of opinions and not playing the churchy culture game; I turned away from the church and went into the non-christian lifestyle. I tried to live with and like the non-christians, whether it be language, sexual things, alcohol etc.

As I hung out in the non-churched world through life, most of them think christians are a joke and a bunch of hypocrits. Even though they knew me to be a christian, I was never critisized for participating in sin with them. What I discovered is that what upsets the non-churched the most is the hypocrocy of what christians call love.

As I understand it, agape love is love of action not feeling. Feeling love is phileo, which is basically what I have seen the church practice. The church talks love but has no action to back it up. I have listened to the non-church talk about countless stories of financially hurting people and when they went to the church they where turned away.

Oh the churches of today will spend countless thousands of dollars to have there cathedral churches, I am not talking about catholics, and spend thousands and thousands on their fancy entertainment systems, but to give out $100 or more is like pulling the perverbial tooth. The churches love to support all kinds of missionaries because they can plaster them on a board like feathers in their hat but helping the poor typically is not well accepted.

When I speak of poor I am not talking just simply people living in the projects, but also sex workers, drug addicts, alcoholics all the so called low lifes in society. Though such people do tend to go hand in hand with poverty.

But even further, is that fact that so many churches get upset over the idea of someone even having the nerve to ask for a $1000 or more, complaining how much more that money could do for someone in another country.

God said that we are to first take care of our own, we are suppose to start taking care of those around us. When a light is turned on, it is the the room or yard that we are in. Not for some place thousands of miles away. I am not running down helping missionaries or others in different countries. I am just saying the church is suppose to start in their back yard first.

And in their back yard are people who live in a country where the cost of living is high. A country where people need vehicles to go back and forth to work. Sometimes a poor person's car has a major unfixable break down and needs another car. It is going to cost about $1000 to replace a car. Even if you buy a cheap one, in my experience within a year that car is going to cost you $1000.

That is only one small example. An example of how churches who bring in extordinary amounts of money act so stingy like scrooge and the non-churched are not stupid. In fact many of the non-church understand and know the principles of God in helping out others in need. It is the fact that the church is too much like scrooge and the non-church sees it.

I have also listened to non-churched people who where not in poverty that equally so rejected christians because of people they knew that went to the church for help and where rejected. They see how some pastors drive around in fancy vehicles, some owning boats and other fancy items, and also other things of great value. They see these people going about living extravagent lives and not caring about the needs of others.

They also see how many christians won't hang around lower class citizens. They are not fooled by the two faced behaviour of the religious who act so loving toward God in church and replace that face with the face of a pure scrooge when not in service.

I myself learned what christianize really is. It is a language of lies and deception. For instance when someone asks how you are doing in church, what a christian really is saying is "hi" in christianise. They certainly don't want to actually hear your problems, particularly if it is one of those problems on the forbidden list. Such as financial problems, my daughter just got knocked up or I just got knocked up, it was a mistake but now what am I going to do, or I just fell to porn again or alcohol or drugs, etc etc.

Another thing the non-church gets feed up with is the way christians are always trying to shuv Jesus down their throats. Oh that doesn't sound very christianise I know, but it really is kind of pathetic that the only reason that some christians want to be around the non-christian is to get them saved so that they can that person can become another feather for their hat. For you see, they know that as soon as they accept this Jesus you will be gone and they will be alone.

It all comes back to love. If christians reached out in love, of coarse you would want to talk about Jesus but loving that person is also very important. God said in his word what good is it if you preach Jesus but ignore the needs of the body. How about telling people how wonderful Jesus is to you and at the same time become friends with the sex worker. How about when they are not walking the streets see if they would like to go to Mc Donalds with you? How about ask them if they would like to go to the zoo with you? How about you try to reach out to them and try to see if they would accept you as a best friend? How about trying to get as many of the undesirable people to be your friends and not care what the religious order thinks.

Just image if christians did this, they would be just like Jesus. That's who he hung out with. The church for the ones I have been to really have it backwards. They act like it is the new comers responsibility to reach out to them. Oh, that also reminds me, those so called greeters at the front door, what a joke. No non-church person I have known buys into that. Because once again, that so called friendliness is only for that brief moment when they have their pretend smiles on and pretend attitude of caring, but have and do not back it up with any intentions of actually showing it.

I do recall one time hearing one prastor who recieved alot of slack because he would take sex workers out to eat. He would even pay for the hour just so their pimps would let the girl go to the restaurant. Some pimps will do some rough things if the girls don't turn enough tricks in a night. So if the girl had that kind of a problem he would pay for the hour and just spend time with her in the restaurant.

Then there was another pastor who choose to live on the streets with the homeless. I don't recall what state or city that one is in. But he actually lives on the streets, not in house but actually on the streets. These people fully accept and respect these pastors because they are showing that they do care about the person and not just the message. Since the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to the lost, we need to first reach them by demonstrating love. It's sort of like that old adtage about the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

Thanks, you are such a sweety!

God can and will still use you Tonya....in His timing for His glory. Never think that he can't use you.

Yes, I agree too. This post you put was excellent! Thanks for sharing it. I do hope someday to be able to go out and reach out to those in the sex industry. But will see what God wants me to do. I do let my hearing impairment get in the way...I am practically completely deaf, sigh. Ughh.

Blessings!
With God's love,
Tonya

I totally agree beloved! We need to be real careful how we treat people. Another thing we need to avoid is pride:"Well Ive NEVER done what YOU'VE done but God still loves you" They can easily discern true love and know when they're looked at more as a project than a soul.

Hello, to everyone
Yes do agree. I was with my sister there at Erotica LA. One thing that I learned to prepare for this type of outreach. Or any type of outreach, or Crusade. Is that you need to be lead by the Lord & if you are called to do this. Or if you have that desire to do something like this ,pray about it give it to the Lord & in His timing He will open that door ( confirmation). Also take that step of faith & see were the Lord is going to lead you. Also as speaking personally, I had to pray & fast weeks before this event. And also to stay in the Word. There was times some of the sisters that was there felt discouraged. I had to share with them don't feel this way cuz the Lord is already doing something as we speak. Also be lead by the Holy Spirit. I shared with Garrett before we left to LA, I told him I learned that when the Holy Spirit says go ,you go. When He says to move you move. And that was the case or even when you share with someone off the street. Give it to the Lord in advance, & there is times you take that step of faith, I'll tell ya the Lord will move.
Over in this place of flesh walking around on the tv monitors
& the people themselves. Are looking & searching to fill that void in their lives. We have to be an example or Ambassadors of the Kingdom. There were those who were Christians living in sin. I saw this & it was like wow. it was an eye opener to them. Why ? Because we did't judge them. We have to show the love of Christ in us. Because we are the only Bible they will ever read. We are a living Epistle to the lost.
You don't need to be a theologin to share the Gospel "Good News", to share Jesus. There is alot of Christians out there turning away people especially in this industry. To were they make the Good News seem like bad news. Lets not do that. Also it shows by you actions. It catches people off guard knowing you are being genuine to them. That love of Christ in you ,in me. Be humble & if the Lord is leading you to this kind of ministry & you don't know how to reach out to a people like this. Pray about it & pray for them, or those caught up in sexual addiction.
Also be sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading, & He will show you. Also reachout & if the Lord wants for you to say something or share your testimony in 2minutes. Watch & see the reaction, let them know you care for them. Ask them there name, that way if the Lord leads it that they will let you pray for them right there, right it down that way you know who you are praying for. Make a List. Even at times ask if they need any prayer.
Well I will share more but I have to go to Service Lord Bless You & keep You

~johnny trejo~

Totally.

why do people have to be so judgmental. the church that I am in now is ok, but one of the churches I grew up in, alot of the people there had an arrogance around them, I had a friend that would come to the youth group with her brother and when her family came and went to the worship service, the dressed like they normally do and the guys had long hair, which doesn't make alot of difference with most people but at my old church it did. this family didn't have a lot of money and they had gone through some tough times. and when they came in I could feel everyones eye flock to them and I practically felt the room grow cold. that family didn't come back too many more times. it broke my heart. they just didn't dress right and they were not welcomed. it happened a long time ago, but I never forgot it.

I do love you all so very much. Thank you for really being real.

Love is the key to everything! I think sex workers are pretty good at spotting fakes, so it is important that we really love them, just where they are and let God love them through us.

I totally agree. how many people just in life in general would be more open to the Gospel if we took this approach. It really does work!

Thank you for putting this up here.

love,

Luke J Phoenix

AMEN:) AMEN:) AND AMEN:):):)

well said my friend.....and this is what I pray for daily, as God is preparing me to do what He is calling me to do:)

luv ya
peace,hugs,prayers
and blessings
carrie