Rule n°1
To my opinion (and from my small experience), rule n°1 of outreaching is given by Our Lord himself :
Mark 4:26-29
The Parable of the Growing Seed
26 He also said, "This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground. 27 Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how. 28 All by itself the soil produces grain—first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. 29 As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come."
Once planted, the seed grows by itself ...to try to check and to SEE it is well and deeply planted (and we have all this temptation of impatience...) could damage definitely the future harvest... We have to rely on God's Wisdom and Power... and our prayers (and love acts) are the rain that will help the rising...
Comments
I was reading this over several times trying to let it absorb somewhere?
What is Rule number 1 in scripture? Well First commandment is love God with everything you have and later in scripture it says how we show our love to is by how we love others.
What is love? That word means different things to everyone. We are to love people in their body, soul and spirit and minister to each in body, soul and spirit. We all seem to like to preach at people as that is the easy part, even though one needs to speak up, but how much do we love others and really care about their needs?
Somewhere on the forum it says about us girls being witnessed to and often going back to being a sex worker and some even wonder why that might happen. I can tell you from experience that going from one to the other is not an easy thing to do even if one gets help. I started on the street and when on the street, many attempted to preach at me. At the time it was well whoopi, ya know? Anyone else relate?
My better half has a saying, "talks cheap, money buys whiskey!" That doesn't sound very religious sounding, but there is a lot of truth in that statement. What is ministering to those in the sex industry or ministering to anyone for that matter? Are we willing to walk with people and care for their needs or just preach?
I will be the first one to admit, that I don't have all the answers, but I do know that if needs are not dealt with, one is likely to backwards instead of forwards, which is the reason to really reach people needs to be in body, soul and spirit understanding that there are three parts to us. Granted once one comes aboard, the Holy Spirit starts working on someone from the other direction which is spirit, body and soul. Soul is the last part to get it, because that is where experience comes from. It is said God is love, but one needs to experience that love to get it and once they know God's love, then the soul has experience as to how it works in practical application.
It is one thing to have a lot of beliefs, but until experienced it cannot reach the soul realm. Beliefs are a good start. For example; "God will provide," is a belief until one knows He will provide and then one can speak from practical experience, that "God will provide." Those words. "God will provide," mean one thing to someone that has a good income and yet another to one in the street looking for something to eat or safe place to sleep, then again when asking a sex worker to give up how they make a living and just trust, sounds easy, but really is very hard.
What I see it is about and I could be wrong, but it seems to be about being willing to adopt people if needed out of love for God and those we trying to help. To me that would be more than just words.
Rule number 1, love God, but how we do that is by loving others, then we really love God. Just a thought.
How many are really willing to be friends let alone adopt?
Have to keep in mind how people witness God's love is through us, either with words or what is needed.
Sarah
God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?
This one may not be the no1 verse for people living in sexual sin but it's pretty close to it. Especially well for those that have a drastically altered train of thought.
Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." 1 Corinthians 6:18 (NLT)
This verse very clearly states that it is the Word of God, that is the seed, that is scattered on the ground.
It certainly does explain a lot........something to ponder. If you get my drift?
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."
Never did I deny that it is the Word of God that is the seed. It is very clearand even clearer considering the entire Mark 4
I am not sure to get your drift. Do you mean that this parable mustn't be read as an encouragement to sleep... waiting for the Will of God to be done? If so I agree
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
Let me ask you, what is love? Is it always just sugar and cake?
I guess what I want to say is, I agree with you that love is to spread the Word of God. The hard sayings as well. That is love.....love is not just emotion.
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."
Love is a polysemic term that in christian context is the translation of the greek word "agape" (vs "eros") and can be translated by "charity"
To answer you I'll take the classical definition of Thomas Aquinas : "Love is to want and search the good of the other" (nothing really emotional in that definition -> love is before all an act of will) which means of course sometimes hard sayings and repression. I have two children and I know that evil must be counter attacked strongly for the good of them.
Nonetheless in apostolate, denounciation and hard sayings aren't the usual way. As we say in french "you don't catch flies with vinegar". Denounciation and hard sayings are the privilege of saints and prophets. I am not one of them ;-)
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
We are told that it is the greatest weapon, yet Christians hate to use it. I never get why we think we can't just love someone where they are at, just show them unconditional love. Like Jesus did for us....instead we want to make sure they know that they are not doing right and we beat them up with the bible
I was loved by God when I was stil turning tricks and I needed to hear about that love above all else....because that love changed everything for me....
It starts with love....
I am so looking forward to the Thursday outreach :) I get to go love people for Jesus:)
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
Carolemarie;
I'll pray for your outreach!!!
I don't think the question here is whether or not we are to love. It appears that everyone here agrees with that fact. I think the main question here is, how we are to demonstrate God's love.
I think it varies. As far as sex industry workers go, well, they already know that they are in sin, so confronting them on this issue is pretty much pointless. On the other hand, I definitely don't think that we should ignore the sin, or pretend that it's not there. That is just counterproductive, and defeats the entire purpose.
So, then, how should we reach out in love? 2 ways. We need to let them know that we care about them as human beings, and we need to present the Word of God to them as a word of hope, and not of condemnation. That's what most of these people need -- hope. I know I did. Honestly, they respond so much better than that.
Whatever we do, we cannot be afraid of the Word of God -- this is our primary weapon, and the only way they will experience true freedom....and if they know we are out there out of care and concern, rather than as an angry mob, or seeing them as a charity case, or as another notch in our spiritual belt, so to speak, we will have more success.
Remember that there is power in the Word of God. There is healing power, and there is also convicting power. God will use His word as he sees fit...We just need to be there to give it to them. The most loving thing we can do is meet them where they are.
Heb. 4:12 tells us that the Word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword. It's this word that brings healing and life, and like any sword, we need to know how to use it.
2 Cor. 7:10 tells us that Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation. People will not repent until they become sorrowful over their sinful state. As a former sex worker, the thing that brought me to true Godly sorrow was the fact that I had hurt the loving, merciful God by my actions. The more clear this truth became, the more determined I became not to willfully sin anymore. It was the kindness of my Saviour, Jesus, that brought me to this truth -- not someone telling me that i was going to hell.
I knew I was in sin, and going to hell, but IMO, I was already in hell on earth. It wasn't until the kindness and love of God was realized deep in my soul that I truly made a life change.
Any ministry should bring forth fruit. Fruit is changed lives for the kingdom. Only God can change lives -- we cannot!!!! That is why we must ask for wisdom and discernment regarding how to best minister to the lost souls that God puts in our path.
However we do it, I think we can all agree -- It must be done in love.
Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums
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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
April, I couldn't agree more with ALL that you write in this post...
When you write : "Any ministry should bring forth fruit. Fruit is changed lives for the kingdom. Only God can change lives -- we cannot!!!!"...you echoe the parable I quoted in this topic... GOD DOES THE JOB NOT US...WE ARE JUST TOOLS...
Gob bless you all
Bruno
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
I think this is really an important concept that we discuss. I don't disagree (for the most part) with what April wrote. But getting back to Bruno's original post. He quoted Scripture, that is used to describe the proclamation of the Gospel.
But then he added on these words:
Once planted, the seed grows by itself ...to try to check and to SEE it is well and deeply planted (and we have all this temptation of impatience...) could damage definitely the future harvest... We have to rely on God's Wisdom and Power... and our prayers (and love acts) are the rain that will help the rising
I'm a little confused as to what he means here. The Bible says to teach new converts to obey all things.
I'm not trying to offend you Bruno.....just trying to provoke you to think. Scatter the seed we must...the hard sayings. Couple that with prayer and loving acts and then I would say that I agree with you.
It is a continuum......
I don't mean to sound like I'm picking. But I think that you are leaving a lot of important things out of what is required of us as more mature believers in Christ. Am I making sence here?
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."
This makes sense indeed Pa123. And I don't feel offenced. But I think there is a misunderstanding. Because of my weak english skills so I'll try to be more precise...
1) I didn't talk about evangelizing in general but about sex workers outreaching, which is something very specific. If you say to a prostitute "change your life because you 're going to hell" she'll answer you "OK... but who will pay my loans" ?
2) The interpretation I gave of the parable isn't mine (I'm not qualified and saint enough to interpret Sacred Scripture) but the one given by several theologians and more important by great missionaries, among them St Vincent de Paul (a Mother Theresa of the 17th century) and the Rev. Libermann (who founded one of the first congregation dedicated to evangelization of Black Africa in the 19th century) : Vincent de Paul used to say "God's plantations grow slowly" and Libermann "if you don't wait for God's hour but want to go faster, it's not Holy Spirit and Grace that lead you but human nature"... Once the seed is planted we have to wait for God'hour
3) Frank Duff who has been in the 30's the founder of the Legion of Mary and who converted with his group nearly all the prostitutes of Dublin quoted in his handbook a sentence pronounced by an old missionary : "when I win an arguing, I lose a soul"... I meditated on that
4) You talk about "new converts to teach". This might be the root of our misunderstanding. I don't talk about "new converts" but about people very far from God and often not baptized
5)Endly my argument is very simple. I'll take an example to be more concrete : when you offer a Bible to someone (before his/her conversion) you don't phone him the next week to check he has started to read it. If you do so, you'll be seen as someone willing to manipulate him/her...
Yours in Christ
B.
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
But it is easy to recognize when you see it.
Most sex workers don't know what love is, and they need that hope. Which is the very reason that God saved us, so we can show the same compassion that God showed us to them.
We go in to serve these women and girls, and we of course tell them about Jesus, but we want the actual presence of the Lord that dwells in us to shine forth. We try to live that standing in the gap for them and counting ourselves among the transgressors....so to me, it isn't about just giving a bible, (but we do give them) but building a relationship and walking the whole thing out with them. If they don't want to hear about Jesus, we don't talk about him, we try to meet their needs on the level they can hear, and then slowly earn the right to speak in to their lives....the timing is the Holy Spirits and sometimes they want to wait and see before trusting us.
Anyways, thanks for praying for us Thursday! This is a new thing for me, to hand off this club to our new coordinator for the NE area, she and her team will be going back to build the relationships and be the on-going presence to this part of town...so Heather will need your prayers as she takes this section of town for us.....
We are busy raising up new area leaders because we have over 30 clubs alone out here, not to mention the other sexually orientated businesses.....we can't do it alone so God has provided the help, but I feel like a mother hen, and it is hard to let go, because I am so protective of the girls...
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
I'll pray for you, for "your girls" and the souls you'll reach out to...And I'll offer my thursday's work to this intent
God bless you and may Holy Spirit inspire your team
Bruno
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
Well its been am interesting couple of posts. I think our mental picture of what we are doing is different. I am one who scatters the seed. Thats mostly all I do. But I can see you all are the ones who form the friendships with these girls....where I do not.
Well God speed and I will pray for your outreach Carolmarie.
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."
I agree. It's been a very interesting discussion
God bless you
B.
"The love of Christ urges us" St Paul.... TODAY !. "TOMORROW is Satan's favourite word" Alphonse of Liguori
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
What's the most loving thing you can say to someone who is in their sin Bruno?