Want To Give Up? A Life-giving Response....
Do you feel like giving up? If you do...please read this.
One particular day while people were sharing testimonies of where they had failed regarding addictions - God showed up. In that split-second, I had a flash image of His reaction to moments of stumbling in my life. The vision went like this:
I was running on a racetrack when all of the sudden I tripped and fell. I had gotten a wound on my leg and immediately positioned myself to nurse it. I slowly stood up not facing forward, but looking back. Looking back at all the times I failed regarding addiction and disappointment. A sense of powerlessness washed over me. In that moment I felt a body standing behind me, a gentle arm wrap around me, and a hand on my sternum. I looked down to see that it was scarred. I recognized immediately it was Jesus, but He did not force me to turn around. Instead He stood also facing my direction next to me holding me and allowing me to have that moment in stillness. His presence was so strong that I turned around wanting to see His face - which automatically repositioned me to face forward again.
I realized His scarred hand over my heart, reminded me that He shared all my brokenness and pain so that I could live free in Him. SHARED: I emphasize that because He also understands our thought process even in the depth of our addiction...He took it on Himself!! His wounds are evidence of His victory over the cross and over death and over addiction. The act of Him placing His hand over my sternum was also His statement of victory over the hurts in my heart. That physical demonstration He showed was a seal and declaration that I would never experience times like these in the race alone for the future, and that His presence and love would always face me forward again.
I truly believe the root of any kind of addiction can be broken longterm as we get to know one source. Jesus. He is the only one that can help us face and move forward again. I am more convinced of that now than ever before.
We can allow ourselves to see what His love is REALLY like. He is giving us opportunity to learn how He connects with us in the darkest part of the journey. His response is not what you'd expect.
Jesus has run that racetrack MANY times around and finished it with many people!
Comments
Thanks for sharing! I do good and then I do bad. Its hard to stay consistent. I'm so frustrated when I give into the lies of satan. Please keep me in your prayers. I have stopped watching porn, but I haven't been to successful with stopping the masterbation part. I serve a lot in ministry and I thought that it would help, but I still find myself being tempted more and more. I know that the Lord is the master and I won't give up but lately I've been feeling depressed just with the thoughts and I am trying so hard not to give up. I've got to spend more time with the Lord today. I'm gonna go do that right now, but I just wanted to thank you for your words! Our hope is in Christ alone! I just have to keep on running to Him and running away from the temptations when they come. Lord, help me to cry out to you today and everyday that you have given me life!
God Bless,
GodsRose
Haven't heard back from you. I hope you are doing ok. I hope my response didn't confuse you or anything. Let us know how you are doing!
Blessings,
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
I'm so glad you have found us here, and hope you find the forums helpful. We try to be a place to allow people to share their struggles without fear of condemnation or judgment, and to encourage you. I think we do pretty well with that!
First thing that comes to mind is your statement:
"I do good and then I do bad. Its hard to stay consistent."
That is exactly what Paul struggled with when he wrote Romans 7: 15-25...."For what I am doing, I do not understand. I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate."
That is what so many of us Christians struggle with. We thought once we became Christians, we would be able to pretty much stop sinning, walk in obedience to God's commands and be holy. Not quite. I'm still trying to make sense of it all, but I'm at a point of believing one of the first things we need to do after being saved, is to get a revelation of our sinful nature, and come to the point like Paul says in Romans 7:24..."wretched man (woman) that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" We have to reach that point of recognizing our sinful nature still fights to be in control even after we are saved. We have to reach the end of our rope in trying to be holy thru ourselves...which is through our sinful nature.
We need to be broken of our own strivings in our flesh to be holy cuz it simply can't and won't. We have to learn to walk out and fulfill Romans 8: 2 "For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."
And Galatians 5:16-17 "...walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. for the flesh sets it's desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, for these are in opposition against one another, so that you may not do the things you please."
The fact that you struggle with sin and are grieved and frustrated with it is proof of your salvation, and indicates that your flesh and Spirit are fighting! No, it isn't fun. :(
The answer isn't being more involved in ministry. You said:
"I serve a lot in ministry and I thought that it would help, but I still find myself being tempted more and more."
That isn't the answer. The answer is to COME to God Himself. He is the Spring of Living Water; ministry is not. We have to take time away from ministry and everything else, and seek Him. That is my problem too. Let us COME to Him, for He is waiting with open arms.
Blessings,
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
I definitely value your perspectives and you have hit on something. Though when you talk about me focusing on other people's relationships with God...really I was trying to express the realization that I had made in seeing God the same way I saw my dad...the way that I felt about my dad and my difficulty in my relationship with him wound up being the same way I felt about God. It wasn't really what I felt my dad's relationship with God, but more my relationship with God which I saw as similar to my relationship with my dad. I don't know if this makes sense.
But nevertheless, what you said makes sense. I do tend to focus on myself and others and the problems, rather than on God Himself. You are right, I do need to stop focusing on that and being so hard on myself and learn to just get my eyes on God, focusing on His power, His ability rather than my inability etc. I do tend to feel I am pitiful and such a failure and keep forgetting that God knows that our sinful natures are like that and it's all about Him in us, doing what we cannot. Geez, its so easy to continually fall for that trap over and over... Thanks for recognizing that and pointing it out!
I need to stick with limiting my time being online, cuz it takes away from my time reading the bible and praying and seeking His face. I keep telling myself that, but then I just check my emails and stuff, telling myself it will just be short time, but then most times I wind up being on for at least an hour or more, then I'm tired and need to get to bed. Hard to break the habit. I don't want to miss stuff. Sigh. Tv and computer is taking our whole family time away from God....do you think it can be considered idolatry if you let tv/movies and computers get in the way of praying and seeking God and reading the Bible? My husband doesn't.
Thanks and Hugs!
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Hey, Tonya;
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back with you.
I just want to re-assure you that you are not alone. I also struggle with the internet thing, spending too much time on there and taking precious time away from the Lord and seeking His face. The thing is, when we do that, we are giving Satan an open door to come in and lay condemnation on us, which brings us deeper into frustration and feeling bad. I'm not sure if it's that way with you, but it is with me.
I guess the only real solution to for us is to just put our noses to the grindstone and discipline ourselves. Get off of the computer at a certain time and devote whatever time we have purposed to devote to God, even if we don't feel like it. I have found that a lot of times, even when I don't feel like it, when I start to pray, or get into God's word, I enjoy it immensely and get so much out of it.
So, then, I guess the only logical solution to our quandary is the most obvious one -- discipline ourselves.
Heb. 12:1,2 1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Lay aside every weight, and run with endurance!!!
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I know you have a lot going on.
Yeah, I guess I will just have to make myself a schedule...I'm sure my husband will be more than happy to hold me accountable! Ugh. But I do need to make myself stick to a schedule of when I will use the computer, to limit myself and get more focused on my time with God.
Good scripture too!
Lord, give me grace!! I can truly do nothing without You! But I've got to take my steps towards You, first, don't I? :)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
I really like what you shared. I struggle to come to Jesus especially in my low, dark moments of discouragement and despair and frustration. I feel like the words "know" and "come" are jumping out at me in the bible, so I know God is trying to teach me about truly knowing Him and truly coming to Him, no matter if I have failed Him yet again. To know Him as a compassionate and gracious and loving God, not as the One who is angry and disappointed with me and wants nothing to do with me. Thanks.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Hi, Tonya;
I wanted to respond to what you wrote, because I am wondering. Do you know why it is that you struggle to come to Jesus in your most disparaging moments? A lot of times, there are things that hold us back, and a lot of it is stuff from our past.
I know that for me, I had a lot of walls built up, and I had to really allow Christ to break down those walls. There is also the fear factor. I notice that in your post, you said I know God is trying to teach me about truly knowing Him and truly coming to Him, no matter if I have failed Him yet again. This really struck me, because I know that with me, if I felt that i really failed the Lord, I would be almost afraid to come to Him -- not really afraid because of punishment or anything, but just afraid I guess out of shame, and I know a huge part of it was me not wanting to face the fact that I had failed again. It was almost like a fear of having to face the Lord, because I was so afraid I had disappointed Him.
It's almost like not wanting to confront the situation, you know, like in your mind you know the Lord is forgiving and loving, but its almost a matter of not wanting to forgive yourself.
Does that make sense? What are your thoughts? If this sounds like something similar to what you are going through, I can let you know what helped me. I am just curious as to why you feel such an intimidation....It's almost like we know He's loving and forgiving, but we're not accustomed to that.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Yeah, I don't know if I'm afraid of punishment either, but I do believe I have a lot of shame issues, and feeling unworthy. I do beat myself up a lot over stuff, call myself names or describe myself/my actions in a really negative way. I remember when I went on a total fast and was alone for weekend in December, I was reading a book, "Living for God" by Charles Finney. I didn't read the whole book, but I read to one chapter about 'Total Submission', and at the end of the chapter, it had a story about a father with a rebellious and stubborn son. Let me just quote from it:
"He loved his son and longed to have him virtuous and obedient. But the child seemed to harden his heart against his repeated efforts. Finally, the poor father was discouraged and burst into a flood of tears. 'My son! What can I do? Can I save you? I have done all that I can to save you! What more can I do?'
The son had never yielded to the rod. But when he saw the tears rolling down his father's cheeks and heard his sobs, he, too, burst into tears. He cried out, 'Whip me father! But don't cry!' The father had found the way to subdue that stubborn heart. Instead of holding the iron hand of law over him, he poured out his soul before him. And what was the effect? To crush him into hypocritical submission? No, the rod did that. That gushing of tears of his father's love broke him down at once to true submission to his father's will. The sinner braves the wrath of almighty God and hardens himself to receive the heaviest bolt of thunder. Then he sees the love of his heavenly Father's heart. When he sees God manifested in the flesh, stooping to take human nature, hanging on the cross, and pouring his soul in tears, bloody sweat, and death, his heart melts. He cries out, 'Do anything else, and I can bear it; but the love of the blessed Jesus overwhelms me.'"
When I read the part: "The sinner braves the wrath of almighty God and hardens himself to receive the heaviest bolt of thunder...." that is the part that made me cry. I just broke down. I am not quite yet at the point where I get a revelation of the love of Jesus on the cross, dying for me. I haven't come to the place of being broken down about that yet. I don't know why. It hasn't penetrated yet. But that passage really spoke to me.
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Dear Beloved Branch and Tonya,
First of all Tonya- no matter where you are right now whether you sense His love in that way or not, you are loved!! He sees you no better no worse. I can't say that enough. You are loved and FOUGHT for every single day-His eagerness to fight for you is just as fresh now as it was from day one. From the day He created you He qualified you-because of His love- He knew what was to take place, and it didn't surprise or overwhelm Him. I am believing you will experience the fullness of His love in His perfect time for you - perhaps it may look different. That is okay.
Let me share this and I share this with a whole lot of love and serious understanding. Often times interacting with God - in this part of the phase can come with a lot of fear and anxiety. There is truth in the statement that fear has to do with punishment. The fear of being shamed or disqualified or even rejected by the choices we've made can be devastating-I share this cause I have been there and even now there are times where those feelings come up and I have to reject them and remember and declare who I am in Christ-even if I don't feel it.
In our perception, we often view God somewhat like we view our earthly dad's or even some male / female figure who may have cared for us. Why? Their care or lack of goes to the deepest parts of ourselves - our DNA and our hearts. It is like our heart documents the way we were treated and ends up holding all the hurt and anger that come with being treated wrongly. That can be a part of the blockage. So when the Lord-a FATHER gently knocks and waits to be invited in, it can be really scary-it is like our heart is screaming...I do not want to be treated like that again! It is self preservation...If we experienced much distance in our younger years - sometimes we might assume the Lord is really distant. If we experienced abandonment or rejection, we sometimes may think that God the Father habitually does the same thing when we do something wrong and even if we do something right. Though we may not state it, our actions and how we operate show our fear.
Perhaps that is why God has been so patient with us. He understands that fragile place in our hearts and keeps patiently, gently, persistently showing us love in different ways - even in times we are was not able to fully receive it or see it. It is almost like we are unconsciously testing to see whether He will be a man of His word. HE IS!
Later on down the road I was able to see His love, But I do agree that there was blockage. I think it is really wise - even if you are afraid right now to openly share that with Jesus. He already knows, but it stirs His heart when you are open with Him. He will not shame you. Again, I say He will not shame you-but He is eager to show you His love and mercy. You can let Him know how you really feel. Ask Him what may be keeping you from receiving His love as Beloved Branch suggested. Jesus is faithful, even more faithful than our closest friends will or could ever be. He even promises that if you seek Him you will find Him as you seek Him with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
I just want to say that for years I had blockage that kept me from seeing God's love in the ways described in this vision. In fact for years I couldn't even get a clear image of who God truly was in my life. I am 31 now, and I have only begun to see God's love like this in the last three years! What did it take? I got to the point where I let God know I was desperate for Him and if He didn't show up I would utterly fail. I also had to really begin to let God help me keep my eyes open to what He was doing in my life because it was so easy for me to keep my eyes closed and my heart hardened. Sometimes we are asked to sever somethings in our lives that may make our hearts hard. To bind these things in Jesus name and to lay them at His feet.
Examples: These are just a few blockages
Unhealthy relationships
Vows that were destructive
Things that we idolize
Old perceptions that are negative
Unforgiveness
Bitterness and grudges that were never dealt with
Here is something key too! The Holy Spirit does a lot more than we know in setting us free to see His love. WHY? The Spirit of God has been searching the deepest parts of God....His heart and even His thoughts toward us. It is the Holy Spirit's job to reveal that to us! That is why the Holy Spirit also plays such a huge key role in helping you see Abba Father in His fullness.
Love you...and am for you.
What jumped out before and I really like, is where you (faithfullyloved) talk about:
"You are loved and FOUGHT for every single day-His eagerness to fight for you is just as fresh now as it was from day one"
Funny enough in my dreams, I often dream about telling street kids, "I'm fighting for you because you are worth fighting for! That is God's love!". So I really like that, that God loves us enough to fight for us. It's one thing for me to dream about saying that to street kids, but not sure if I feel like I am (worth fighting for). Don't really know what to think or feel about that in relation to me at all.
The other thing you talked about with fear and shame...big with me too. I feel like I have something in me wanting to share more, but really drawing a blank right now. But will keep posting, cuz I really want to keep seeking God and getting to the place of receiving all He has for me. I'm 40 now. It's time! Just like the Israelites of old. :)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
I don't know if ya'll know the song well. I do know that Leann Rimes has sung it, as well. The song really speaks to me, cuz I think it really speaks of the struggle to know God's love and receive it, particularly when you've been quite wounded by life.
The first part talks about each of our different perceptions/- definitions of love, based on our experiences with life. We may feel love is like a river that drowns us, a razor that cuts us and makes us bleed, or a hunger that never seems to feel satisfied or filled. Then the song defines love as being like a flower, and I suppose a loved one (boyfriend/husband) who is the seed. I personally feel there can only be one true seed, that would be God Himself, because He is love. We love because He first loved us. Only because of Him can we truly love.
Then the song talks about the part I can really relate to, "It's the heart afraid of breaking, that never learns to dance. It's the dream afraid of waking that never takes the chance. It's the one who won't be taken, who cannot seem to give. And the soul, afraid of dying, that never learns to live."
That is the perfect description of the heart that is walled up behind hurts and fears and wounds; a heart of stone, "protected" by a self-protective wall. Its a heart afraid of breaking, refusing to take risks, refusing to trust God and obey. It's the one who won't be taken and will not give, unless it is fairly sure it won't get hurt. It's a soul afraid of dying, and never learns to live. Wow! How Jesus wants us to LIVE! He came to give us life. He came to bring healing to our wounds.
I like how Bette Midler ends the song with encouragement: "Just remember in the winter, far beneath the bitter snow, lies the seed that with the sun's love (God's love), in the spring, it becomes a rose."
I love that. Hope. Encouragement. God's love always hopes, always believes, always perseveres. Love never fails. He can make a rose come up out of bitter snow-- He causes all things to work together for good.
Truly a simple, but beautiful song.
Help me Lord.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
We did this discussion back and forth back in February and now it is almost June. Nothing has happened yet, and I'm feeling a bit frustrated and discouraged. One positive thing is, I am talking with a counselor. Thru Eric's ministry, "Intimacy Matters". She talks to me online, since she lives hours away from me. At least she is willing to work with me.
I need to keep rereading this post every once in a while to remind myself of what we've talked about. Still can't seem to bring myself to truly come and seek God, and cry out to Him regularly. Ugh. Pout. Truly, it will have to be all God.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Thank you for posting again. I have not posted for awhile now, but it is good to be back again. Thank you for sharing where you are at. I wish I could send a real hug your way regarding the discouragement and frustration. It is definitely a hard part of the journey that is unavoidable.
You know that post back in Feb was something that had never happened to me in daily life. Prior to experiencing insight like this, I also really struggled with sharing the various parts of my life with the Lord. You know what, it is still a challenge-and I think it is linked with my trust or lack there of. I had always felt like calling on Him or spending time with Him was a laborous duty. God in His great mercy shows me daily that no matter where I am, that He is present-even if I refuse to be or don't know how to be-or if I am operating out of my own efforts and flesh-which of course never lasts. He is gentle and just shows me over time what it means to be present...what it means to never leave me. That is something that has not happened over night for me, but over a period of many years...and still today.
I think that when we have struggled with addiction or some kind of escapism from pain for so long, we forget how to be present....present with people and present with the Lord....that it doesn't always look like two hours of face down crying before the Lord, but it can happen in various moments and many different ways in different time frames. One thing I know for sure is that He will remain present...ready to show you whatever it is you need to hear...not always what we want to hear, but often what we need to hear in order to live again.
I hear you when you say it is hard for you to seek Him regularly and I wonder if deep down inside there is a fear that He won't come through for you? Often times our hesitation is linked to an insecurity or fear. Realize that He knows all about that even before you tell Him and that His love for you does not change whether you tell Him or not...but your freedom and peace of mind do change as you grow a deeper hunger to reach out for Him. That just takes risk and community and the Lord's power, but it also does take your part too...and that is the miracle... Relationship with the Lord is never one sided. It's two people going on a journey and discovering how to simply be present with each other.....Not easy....not smooth...not always safe, but life giving.
Again thanks for sharing your heart. I thank the Lord for keeping you in His arms all this time. May He give you more insight about He goodness...His trustworthiness and He ability to come through for you.
Two things you said jumped out at me...the first one about struggling with addictions or some kind of escapism from pain, and forgetting (or really, just not knowing how) to be present. With people or the Lord. Yeah, that really speaks to me. Yes, I have been running and avoiding and escaping issues for as long as I can remember, and I'm 40 now. So, I really don't know how to be present with people in my life, especially my husband, or with God. Prayerfully, my counselor can help me with that.
The other point, you asked me if it is hard for me to seek Him regularly...and if it is because I fear He won't come through for me. Yeah, that does seem to be a big one for me. I can relate to agrl20 where she struggles to feel like God even listens to her and speaks to her. I feel like I can't hear from Him most times either. Back in December, I went on a fast and spent time alone for a weekend to seek God. I remember very clearly asking God to speak to me so I could hear and know His voice..."My sheep know My voice". And I wanted to experience Him hugging/holding me. People had told me they experienced it, and encouraged me to ask God for that. I started about 10 am...and continued to about 2 pm...starting really struggling cuz didn't feel like I heard or experienced anything from Him. Then found my thoughts going back to when I was a teen in high school, finished with track team practice, waiting for my mother to come pick me up after work. Waiting...waiting...waiting. My journal entry:
"About 2 pm, I got restless and anxious. Started feeling upset and impatient. Felt the need to 'wrap it up' so I wouldn't keep my family waiting on me. (fear of man?). I also started thinking negatively, thinking 'Why haven't I heard from Him? Why hasn't He embraced/touched me?' Then accusation/anger, 'It's mean to keep people waiting.' Then remembering when I would have to wait for my mom after school, and would often worry she was in an accident, which started a stronghold of fear in me (or perhaps started with Kitty)**...fearing family and friends in accidents?
**(Kitty is my father's 3rd wife who was killed in a car accident about 1 1/2 or 2 yrs after they married).
Then I remembered the verse Psalm 27:14 "Wait for the Lord. Be of good courage, He shall strengthen your heart. Yes, wait for the Lord." I also like verse 13, "I would have despaired unless I had believed, that I would see the goodness of the Lord..."
Unfortunately, I only waited one more hour...still nothing, and started to pack up and clean up and left the cabin shortly after 3pm. I wonder if I had only stayed and waited longer.... well, keep seeking!"
I haven't since then. Perhaps my fear. He didn't come through for me then, so it seemed. Sigh. Oh, Lord, give me grace!!
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Good discussion!!! Thanks for being so open and honest.
Tonya -- I want to ask you a question, and sort of challenge you, if that's okay. Do you recall a time when God did speak to you?
Faithfully_loved brought up a good point in that God speaks to everyone in different ways. I know that sometimes God tries to speak to us, but because we are expecting Him to speak to us in a certain way, we miss what He is saying. Other times, we are distracted.
The Bible says that God speaks to us in that still, small voice. Sometimes we are looking for one thing, and He is trying to reveal another.
If you can, try and recall all the times when the Lord has spoken to you. I am sure that He has done so at some point, or else you probably wouldn't be here continuing to seek Him.
Also, I am trying to figure out exactly what it is that you re wanting Him to speak with you about. Is there something in particular? Do you just want a closer relationship with Him, or are there certain things?
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I had been trying to seek to know God's voice, since Jesus said that His sheep know His voice. And I had people encourage me to ask God to give me a tangible experience of Him hugging/holding me, to feel loved by Him. Perhaps these people meant well, but were were boxing God in, trying to get me to experience something they experienced. I don't know. They meant well.
I did feel it was important to know how God would speak to me in a way that I would know His "voice" in whatever way He chooses to speak to me.
I did have times where I felt God spoke to me, more often in terms of putting scriptures to my mind, and at times wind up feeling emotional or crying. Other times its thru songs. Sometimes there is something on my heart like the sex trafficking issue, which is what led me to finding Shelley's website Pink Cross. Then God seems to share scriptures and I feel like the verses are like puzzle pieces that fit together. Or the dreams I had about how God works to heal our broken hearts, but needing to bring our walls of self-protection down. I got lots of scriptures on that too. Keep meaning to finish them but haven't. I get so overwhelmed cuz I feel like there are soo many things I need to do..I need to work on a behavior chart for my kids, finish the chore chart, do the healing heart thing...along with school stuff and daily stuff...I know God doesn't overwhelm or confuse...but I tend to do that and wind up getting nowhere. Ugh.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
WOW!!! This first statement really popped out at me, because I used to struggle with the exact same thing....and still do, to some extent, but not as much as before.
I understand the desire to want to know God's voice. There was a time when I really struggled with this, also, but God revealed a beautiful truth to me that REALLY put my mind at ease.
What He showed me was that a lot of my struggle had to do with lack of faith on my own part. Let me explain. When we give our lives over to God, we are entrusting Him with total and complete control. When we do this, we automatically become His children -- His sheep. At this point, we know the voice of God, and we do not need to question it, because we have the assurance from God Himself that He is speaking to us and is guiding our lives.
What God basically told me was that I needed to trust in Him -- trust that He IS talking to me and that He will NOT allow me to stray from Him by sending me mixed signals. My problem was that I was always afraid to go through with decisions, because I was afraid that it might not be God's voice that I was hearing. God taught me that I needed to trust that He was in control of my life, was speaking to me, and that I just needed to RELAX and listen to Him.
This really opened my eyes to what my problem was....my lack of faith in God, and that His promises did apply to me, and that He was leading and guiding my life. I was so afraid in my own inability to hear God's voice, and I was neglecting the fact that the reason we hear His voice is because He DOES speak to us. I just needed to have faith in God that He was speaking to me, and that He was NOT going to lead me astray by allowing me to follow another voice...whether my own or the enemy's.
Because we are God's children, we can have complete assurance and confidence that the Lord IS speaking to us, and that we are in the palm of His hand, and He will NOT allow us to be misled, or intentionally mislead us. That is out of God's character and He has promised us better things.
My problem is that I am a perpetual worrier, and always have been. This carried over into my spiritual life, and God showed me that I needed to take the focus off of myself, and start focusing on Him.
One thing I might want to suggest to you is that you do a word study on the peace of God. It sounds like this is what you may really need right now. Just look up all of the Scriptures (especially in the New Testament and Psalms) that have to do with God's peace.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I am a bit confused where you said:
"...What God basically told me was that I needed to trust in Him -- trust that He IS talking to me and that He will NOT allow me to stray from Him by sending me mixed signals. My problem was that I was always afraid to go through with decisions, because I was afraid that it might not be God's voice that I was hearing. God taught me that I needed to trust that He was in control of my life, was speaking to me, and that I just needed to RELAX and listen to Him.
This really opened my eyes to what my problem was....my lack of faith in God, and that His promises did apply to me, and that He was leading and guiding my life. I was so afraid in my own inability to hear God's voice, and I was neglecting the fact that the reason we hear His voice is because He DOES speak to us. I just needed to have faith in God that He was speaking to me, and that He was NOT going to lead me astray by allowing me to follow another voice...whether my own or the enemy's...."
I'm confused because while I understand you are saying that we should trust that God does speak to us and we should trust that, I have a hard time believing that God will not allow me to follow another voice, either my own or the enemy's...I really thought I remember hearing preaching that we can hear three voices, God's, our own, or the enemy. And we have to learn to discern who is speaking. And there are some "telltale signs" of recognizing whose voice is speaking. The more we know God's word, the more we can recognize when God is speaking, or ourselves or the enemy. I've heard stories about how people who are christians who say that God tells them things, like some people believe God tells them to leave their spouse and marry someone else, or other things we believe are wrong and contradict scripture. So I need you to elaborate more on the idea that God will not allow us to follow another voice, cuz I thought that is basically our choice. We are the ones who open ourselves to be deceived. Help me out here! :)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Hey, Tonya;
The bottom line is this -- God does not want us to live in fear, and He certainly doesn't want us to live in fear of whether or not we are hearing His voice. The Bible states clearly that God has not given us a spirit of fear.
You are correct when you say that we must learn to discern God's voice. We learn as we read about Him through His word. That is the main barometer by which we discern His voice and make judgments -- if it's in agreement with the Word of God. How we interpret that word is through the wisdom that He gives us.
So, then, what if we read the Bible all the time and still have trouble discerning God's voice? The bottom line is, the Bible tells us that God's sheep hear His voice. Do you believe that you are saved? Are you in fellowship with God? Well, then, the Bible says that you hear is voice. You hear His voice because you know His word, and because God speaks to you.
I guess the next factor to take into consideration is your prayer life. When you pray to God, ask Him to speak to you clearly, to open doors that HE wants you to go through, to shut any doors that He doesn't want you to go through, and for Him to take complete control and guide your life. Once you have asked Him to do this, rest on the promise that WHATEVER you ask God according to His will that He will accomplish. You know that it is His will that you walk according to His direction, so at this point, you must TRUST that He is directing you.
This is what moving forward in faith is all about...trusting that He is speaking to you, and that He is honoring your prayer to make His voice clear and open and close doors as He sees fit. The ministers that you refer to were correct when they say that you must learn to discern God's voice, but this also doesn't mean that life is an eternal test of God trying to figure out whether or not you can discern His voice. What God tests us in is our obedience to His voice...not our ability to discern it.
What you must trust God in is that He is leading you and guiding you toward obedience. If we are constantly questioning whether or not we are hearing His voice, we are going to have a really hard time moving forward, and we will not have faith in anything. Once we have brought our requests before the Lord, to take complete control of our lives, we must put our hands up and say "Okay, God, I trust that this is You leading me in this direction. I do not trust you based on my own capability to discern, but on Your capability to lead and guide me."
The fact is, a person who usually gives into the voie of Satan or his own flesh didn't give in because he couldn't discern God's voice, but because of his own pride and self-will. For example, if someone is greedy for money, they may think that it's God's will to take a job that may pay a lot of money, when it wasn't. That is why it is also important that we understand our own motives for doing things. One thing I try to do often is ask God to reveal to me the intents of my heart, so that I do not make any decisions based on my own will rather than God's.
Do you see what I'm saying now? If you are sincerely desiring to follow God, which I know you are, He is not going to lead you in the wrong direction. Remember that He wants us to follow in His will more than we do.
I am curious....are you having trouble discerning God's voice in making decisions, or just in general, in your fellowship with Him?
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I'm not real sure what my problem is in terms of hearing God's voice. I do think it is both, in making decisions about some things, particularly when my husband and I don't agree. I do try to pray that God will help us be in agreement. Financially, it does seem we are able to agree a little more like in who to give tithes/offerings to.
I think it is much more difficult in terms of trying to develop a relationship with God, fellowshiping with Him. I think my fears and shame and stuff really get in the way there. I remember about 2-3 years ago after I went to a christian retreat with my oldest son, and God had dealt with me about my strained relationship with my father. He wanted me to see my pain from his emotional wall around his heart, not calling or visiting, and when I visited him, he was "present" for a while, but then was busy with his 8 dogs and watching tv...and didn't talk much; it often revolved around his dogs. So God wanted to work on that. God wanted me to forgive my father, and be the one to reach out to him in love. I cried a lot that weekend. I did try to reach out to my father, calling him regularly and visiting when I could. And not too long after that, I was seeking God and worshipping Him, when He helped me make some connections between my relationship with my father and my relationship with Him...
My journal entry (May 3, 2008):
"Today, I woke up...and told God I feel jealous of people when (I hear about them having such an intimate relationship with God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and how God changes their lives, etc.)
....then I sang "Just to be close to You"...then it was like a domino effect--one thought led to another--thinking about how others are seeking God and experiencing Him, and I'm not. And thinking about how it makes me feel that I try to seek God and wait for Him, and nothing happens. And I realize that it makes me feel rejected and unworthy the same way I feel when my dad doesn't call or visit me. Wow! Not like a big revelation, for some reason it's a small revelation. But it is a very significant one...I confessed to feeling unloved, unworthy, rejected by God and asked Him to forgive me, because I knew it wasn't tru. He reminded me of scriptures: Isaiah 43:4 "You are precious and honored in My sight, and I love you". And Psalm 27:10 "though my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will receive me". And that God wants me to persevere in seeking Him and keep seeking Him until I find Him... Jeremiah 29:13-14 "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart. I will be found by you.' declares the Lord, 'And I will bring you back from captivity"....
Thank you God for helping me to see this truth...my feeling rejected and unworthy like with my dad. You are not like him. You do love me and I am worthy in Your eyes. You want me to persevere in seeking You. "My heart says of You, 'Seek His face!' Your face, Oh Lord, I will seek'" (Psalm 27:8)
And now, here it is, about 2 years later...still haven't persevered! This is the story of my life. Perseverance is not my forte, so to speak. Geez. I keep quitting/giving up...ughhhhhhhhh! Why do I keep going around and around in this vicious circle???? I need to hit a brick wall or something to get my attention, huh?
I haven't persevered in seeking God, and I haven't persevered in keeping in touch with my father. Feeling quite frustrated and discouraged with myself. It's times like this when I see what a pathetic person I am, when I want God to just knock me on side of my head or something to really deal with me! :(
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Hey, preciousnHisEyes;
2 things in your post sort of stuck out at me. The first is that, when seeking God, you tend to focus on other peoples' relationships with God. Second is that you are very hard on yourself, very self-critical. I am thinking these might be a couple of the things that might be getting in the way of your seeking God.
I have dealt with both of these things myself, and they do tend to interfere with our fellowship. We don't mean to focus on these things, but they just sort of surface. They are part of the old patterns that God is trying to break.
If you really think about it, what you are actually doing is focusing on others and yourself rather than God. It's so easy to do, and its a pattern that just has to be broken. If you can, try not to focus so much on others' relationships with God and just focus on your own. Even if you don't think that God is speaking to you, try not to let your mind deviate to the thought of others' relationships to God.
Also, if you start being self-critical, wondering why you can't enjoy certain fellowship then blaming yourself, just try to focus on the goodness of God, and take the focus off of yourself. Remember that God wants to have fellowship with you. There is nothing that you can do to drive Him away. He will continue pursuing you, even though you may have many walls built up. He wants to break through.
What you literally have to do is allow Him to renew your mind, and this is done through the reading of His word, and just allowing it to speak to you and penetrate your heart. You will also find that the more you read, the more the focus will come off of yourself and more on Him.
God is trying to break old patterns that took a lifetime to develop. It takes patience and perserverence...and most of all, faith.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Thank you once again for just living in the light and being present even as you share stuff on this forum. As you just keep being present, you will notice changes taking place. Pardon the long post, but know I care and am grateful for you on this forum.
I definitely am glad you brought up two key points in your response. Let me share the learnings I've had as further insight. Take what is helpful and let go of the other stuff that isn't so helpful. Know that I share this with lots of failings and victories. Daddy is still doing a good work in me even though I am still learning. I will be learning the rest of my life, but that is okay.
Many people may have heard the Lord in a particular way, but that does not mean He'll necessarily communicate exactly the same to you. In fact, you respond to certain things in a very specific manner and God knows it because He wired you. Let me just tell you that God speaks on many frequencies. Often times we gear ourselves to hear Him in one particular way, or only in the ways others have heard Him. However putting God in a box like that can really hamper how you hear Him because He may be speaking to you where it best penetrates your own heart.
He never flatters, but speaks truth...Sometimes that truth can hurt but it heals. His voice is never accusing, so if you are hearing accusation, it actually is a trait of the enemy's voice. (One really good example where Jesus speaks truth without abusing is when He speaks to the woman at the well, not accusingly, but with grace and hope for her.)
One question that maybe good to ask the Lord without demanding a response immediately is to allow Him to gradually show you where He was and what He may have been doing the day you waited for your mom. What was His response when she did not show up? His answer may come in a form of an image, a physical sign, music, or even a word from another friend. Know that He is willing to reveal it, but here is the key.
Often times we ask something of Him and demand that He answer in a particular time frame when, in His mercy, He wants to answer you in multiple ways over an extended period of time so that you can bear it or receive it fully. Unfortunately when we are afraid and shut off, we cannot hear Him even when He keeps speaking. This is not meant to condemn, but to give insight that helps us to remain present with Him even when it hurts. We also cannot hear Him in a place of striving and unrest. Sometimes God chooses not to speak at all. Hannah Hernard-an awesome author speaks of this. God never spoke audibly or even visually to her. He answered her through circumstances and quiet learnings when she just sat down and allowed God's word to wash over her.
Escaping hurt has not benefited us. We can do it for years, but we have mounting evidence that it does not help us mature nor does it bring us greater understanding and experience of God's love. Facing God, facing the hurt, taking time to grieve over the loss, and allowing God to do what He needs to in the grief will help you be able to move forward.
He often positions us in a place where we begin to stop demanding that He speak a certain way and in that place of surrender, can our hearts truly receive life-giving help that is specific to our particular need. He will come through for you. Maybe not in the way you expected, but certainly He is able to take back years that were stolen and to replenish what was lost. It may take a longer period of time or it may take a split second.
One of the most desperate and wonderful prayers Jesus prayed to His Father was about this very thing: remaining in Him just as Jesus stayed and stays present in His Father. My heart's cry for all of us, even me is to stay present with Jesus, Father God, and the Holy Spirit even when life is really painful.
We'll see transformation as we discover our true authority in Him and the fact that God has collected every single one of our tears and never forgotten or abandoned or rejected us. All of those learnings take time to discover. It takes being present with Him.
May the Lord shine on you and be gracious to you. Thank you Lord for all you have done with and without our awareness. We acknowledge that you have been moving and working in our lives.
Being Present involves:
Allowing yourself to grieve with God
Allowing yourself to experience pain with God
Allowing yourself to hear truth, even though it maybe hard
Discontinue hiding
Letting people know you don't have it all together.
Being okay with not having all the answers and sharing that
Allowing the simple things in other's lives to minister to you
Allowing yourself to believe that what God says about you is true
Staying awake to what God is up to when life doesn't look great.
Noticing the good and being grateful in all circumstances
Allowing yourself to hope again.
Allowing yourself to risk and be vulnerable with friends again
Living in the light....
I really appreciate both you and belovedbranch ministering and encouraging me here. Thanks! Your words are so gentle and compassionate and loving, I truly feel you guys represent all that Jesus wanted from His brothers and sisters...."They will know that you are My disciples by your love for one another" (John 13:35)
Faithfullyloved, everything you said bears witness with me and I can relate to. I do know that God dealt with me some in 2008 about how I connected God with my father, feeling like I could not really receive from God His blessings, cuz I felt a lack of intimate relationship like with my father...my father would buy things for me, but didn't take time to really be with me, have a relationship with me. My father put his walls up long ago after his 3rd wife died and hasn't been the same since, and I still struggle with that. All our conversations are short and I don't feel like my father is able/willing to open his heart to me. So I realized I perceived God the same way. But obviously God needs to go deeper cuz I haven't overcome that yet, with either my father or God.
I do have issues with men in general, two in my past were particularly hurtful to me in relationships, my present one has been affected by it and other issues...so I do have a lot of unresolved hurts and fears and angers that I find next to impossible to work thru alone. I just have to tell God I can't, cuz every time I want to try, I back out, every time. I need God's grace with these issues that I can't bring myself to deal with.
I do feel like I have cried out to God to reveal His love for me so that I can see it, but nevertheless, I will do it again, perhaps differently, and keep crying out to Him and seeking Him until He is able to break thru and remove my walls of self-protection so I can receive His love. And I do realize that it is the Holy Spirit who will reveal the things of God to me. I can't really put into words all that I want to say. I just want to be free and whole! I am encouraged that Philippians 1:6 says, "...He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."
Thanks to you both.
Blessings,
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Tonya -- A lot of what you are saying reminds me so much of King David's words in Ps. 63:1 -- My soul thirsts for You; My flesh longs for You, in a dry and thirsty land where there is no water.
I can really tell that deep down in the pit of your soul, you desire to know and experience the fullness of God's grace and love. First of all, I just want to say that God will honor that. I think a lot of times, it is so easy for us to forget that God knows us on the deepest level. He knows and understands the innermost desires of our hearts -- and your desire to know and experience His love on that deeper level. Furthermore, He knows and understands what exactly is holding you back -- even better than you do.
I know that I have not experienced God's love in all of its fullness (I'm not sure any of us really can), but I can tell you that those times when God does manifest His love to me, inasmuch as I can really comprehend, it can be a very overwhelming experience. It's almost as though you are so overpowered by His love that your emotions don't know how to handle it. There are times when I feel the love of God so intensely, that all I can do is weep....and I also know that he is not revealing that love in all of it's fullness, because if that were the case, I wouldn't be able to handle it. Our finite emotons just cannot grasp something as infinite as God's love, so He reveals it to us inasmuch as we can grasp and comprehend.
Even so, it took a lot of healing in me before God was able to do this. It's sort of like this:
Say like you spend your life living behind a brick wall, not being
exposed to any sunlight. The sun cannot get through, because there are all those bricks that are plastered together. If you take one brick away, some of the sunlight will peek through-- not much, but more than before. The more bricks you take away, the more sunlight is able to come through.
Now, say if instead of taking the wall apart brick by brick, someone just comes and demolishes the whole wall at once. If you have been living behind that brick wall for years, being exposed to that much sunlight at once will be quite a shock, and your eyes probably couldn't take it.
It's sort of the same thing with God's revelation to us. If we experience a lotof hurt, we tend to build walls of protection around our hearts as a defense mechanism. We don't allow anyone to come close to us for fear of being hurt, so we don't experience pain, but neither do we experience love either. It's these walls that can keep us from receiving the gift of God in all its fullness. The longer these walls stay up, the less able we are to experience real emotion. If God were to demolish this wall all at once and allow us to experience the fullness of His love, we'd probably wouldn't know how to handle it. Instead, sometimes, He has to slowly take the wall apart, brick by brick --and it can be a very painful experience.
You start to experience Christ's love gradually, and it is a process. It takes time. Cerebrally, you know that God's love is infinite, and you know all the promises, but it isn't until your heart is fully open and ready to receive that love that you are able to experience it....not because God isn't extending it to you, but because of the healing that needs to take place.
In my own experience, it was almost as though I had to make myself vulnerable and exposed to God. If this makes sense to you, I can elaborate and tell you how I was able to start doing that -- if not, then we'll see if maybe something else is hindering you.
What do you think?
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
You are right, Belovedbranch, I agree that God knows me even better than I know myself. He knows the deepest things of my inmost being, my deepest pains and fears and such, and what exactly is/are the barriers preventing me from receiving all that He has for me. I am anxious for Him to get my wall/barrier removed, cuz feel like I've been waiting all my life! But for whatever reason it hasn't happened yet, I know God must have a reason, does have a plan, and has been working behind the scenes, waiting for the pieces to fall into place. Lots of my dreams keep reminding me of things like God's heart and His ways, His love...hard to explain it all.
I do think I understand your analogy about being behind a brick wall with no sunlight, and needing one brick to be removed at a time, so as to allow our eyes to adjust to the light again, rather than all at once which would be overwhelmingly blinding. Makes sense.
So God knows He can't get His love thru to my heart cuz of my wall, so He wants to remove pieces one at a time and then I can experience His love a little at a time? And somehow, somewhere in the process He brings healing? Is that about right?
So you had to make yourself vulnerable/exposed to God. What exactly did you do?
I have had "dreams" of something happening that causes me to break down. For example, lately I've been dreaming about seeing a childhood pix of mine in the newspaper with the headline about a gymnastics coach accused of molesting young girls and trying to find other victims and posting pix of unknown girls from many years ago, wanting them to come forward. I see the newspaper with my pix and immediately get emotional, and my father calls and is upset and wanted to know why I never told him, I was afraid he was mad at me, and I'm getting more and more emotional and shaking and feel like a dam is breaking and a gutteral, deep, painful, uncontrollable cry is trying to break through and I'm frightened and want someone to hold me; I feel like a child. I've had that feeling once in a while, feeling like such a deep overwhelming gutteral cry like when I gave birth to my kids...but somehow something just makes it stop, I can't fully let it go, or something.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Sorry about the delay in getting back with you both. I have been really tired over the past few days, not on the computer much...just trying to rest.
Anyhow, yes, I'd be happy to share what worked for me. Like you, I also had a lot of walls built up, and like you, I really didn't know how to receive God's love, either. Even more than that, though, I realize that at the time, before God started really working in me, one of the major things that was holding me back was my serious lack of understanding of what God's love really was. I mean, as a concept, I sort of had a definition of love, but I didn't really understand or comprehend what it truly was. Because of a lifetime full of bad relationships and having to earn the approval and love of others, my view of love was completely skewed. I wanted so badly to receive God's love, but how could I receive something that I didn't even really understand? God had to literally re-define the whole concept of love for me....rather than me having to work for it, as i was used to in all of my human relationships, I had to learn how to receive it freely, with no strings attached. This was one of the major barriers for me -- trying to learn how to receive that love unconditionally.
I basically had to allow God to re-define love in my mind, and He did this through His word. A huge part of this was seriously reading and meditating on passages about the love of God, His acceptance....just really making an effort to fully understand the nature of His love. I think Rom. 12:2 is such a key verse, because I literally did have to allow God to transform my thinking in this respect....my understanding of His love, so that I could truly receive it, instead of trying to earn it like I did in the past.
I really think that understanding the nature of God's love was so key for me in receiving it. A lot of it had to do with realizing that God truly wanted to pour this love out upon me. In Luke 12:32 Jesus says that it is God's good pleasure to give us the Kingdom. I like to apply this Scripture to His love also -- it is God's good pleasure to pour out His love and blessings upon us. Realizing that He does this because it is His nature, and that we are pleasing and blessing God by accepting that love, really opened the door for me to receive it. In my heart I wanted to please Him, and knowing that by receiving His love I was pleasing Him, gave me a real motive to receive it. God wants to give us His love unconditionally, but I wanted to receive it conditionally, still trying to do things to earn it, just like I had in the past. In order to receive God's love, I literally had to transform my mind and my understanding of unconditional love.
Even when we build up walls that are impenetrable to everyone else, God's strength is more than sufficient to break them down. I know that with me, He really started to break them down when I completely surrendered myself to Him. By this I mean just giving myself over completely to Him -- just expressing myself and my emotions to Him as best I knew how and having faith that He would understand my weaknesses, or inability to express myself.
A lot of times, we have a tendency to hold back from God. I did that without even realizing it. There was stuff in my heart that was holding me back, and one thing I learned was really allowing Him to search me and bring to light whatever was hidden and impeding. This meant being completely honest. I had to admit to Him that I really didn't know myself, or why I couldn't receive His love. I put my complete trust in Him to break down those walls. So, I guess you could say it was complete surrender and trust. Sometimes we say that we trust God, but deep inside, we still have reservations. Sometimes, we don't even know we have those reservations -- but God does. Ps. 139:23,24 are 2 of my favorite verses, and this is the kind of mentality that I brought before the Lord. I just basically surrendered everything to Him -- even the secret parts of my heart that I didn't have a real awareness of.
It's basically about just getting on your knees and admitting to the Lord that you are weak and without understanding. I know that for me, I would see how certain things manifested themselves in my life -- character traits or what-not, the evil thoughts that would arise -- and I hated it, yet it was almost like it had become a part of me...that mode of thinking. I remember the first time the Lord really spoke to me, and gave me peace. I was having a really hard time with bitterness, and I reached a point of frustration where I finally just laid on my bed and literally wept before the Lord, telling Him that I knew I was sinning but I didn't know why I felt these emotions, why my nature was so corrupt. I was literally crying to Him in desperation, and I imagined in my mind me kneeling at His altar, pouring out my soul before Him. For the first time, I felt comfortable pouring out my soul before Him -- not intimidated or ashamed, even though I was ashamed of my sin, I knew that He knew my heart anyway, and that I couldn't hide my heart or feelings from Him. That was the first time I was completely honest and open before Him, and that was when He started leading me into a state of brokenness, and through that brokenness I was able to find healing, because that's when He started breaking those walls down.
So then, I guess that what worked for me was coming to that point of complete brokenness before God, and completely laying everything at His feet.
As you described, it was a gradual healing process. After that, it was as though everytime I would come to Him in deep prayer, I would start weeping...and I didn't really know why, it was as though I was so overwhelmed with emotion, that's the only way I knew how to express myself. I still weep, not as much, but I also know that the Lord has done much healing in me, and that weeping was just part of the healing process....and everytime I would weep, God would just embrace me with His Holy Spirit, and there were times when it really hurt in my heart, but it was as though God was saying that this was stuff I needed to deal with. God was healing me from the inside-out. I really think it was God helping me to release a lot of pent-up emotions that I hadn't dealt with.
If there is stuff that you are struggling with, just lay it at the feet of God. Ask God to bring you to that place of brokenness, and for Him to reveal to you just what is holding you back from receiving the fullness of His love. The Bible says that God reaches down to those who are broken before Him. Beg and plead for God to bring you to that place of brokenness, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you, and His amazing love, in all its fullness.
I hope that this all makes sense.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I was wondering why I didn't hear back from ya. I kept waiting anxiously! But I can definitely understand tiredness and needing to rest! I get that a bit! :) With being a stay at home mom of four younguns between 3 and 9, homeschooling, and housework and cooking...whew, I get worn out!
Thanks for the response. I did get emotional, crying after I read it and was just sitting down rereading it and thinking about what you said. I think part of me is afraid of breaking down and being broken and weeping/sobbing, etc. It's kind of frightening and overwhelming, even though I know it will be a healing process, but still scary. Scared of what God may need to do to get me to a place of brokeness where He can finally bring my walls down. Scared of emotional pain. Even though I know He won't do anything more than I can bear and that He is a good God and loves me, etc, ...still, its hard. I find myself wanting someone with me to help me thru it (someone to hold me when I've broken down), someone I'm comfortable with and trust. Can't think of anyone I know well that I feel comfortable with. But I did pray for God to help me with the things you mentioned, about searching my heart and mind and revealing what's there, removing my wall--heart of stone, bringing me to a place of truly understanding His love, and a place of brokeness where He can heal me, all of that. By God's grace only.
Thanks for sharing. I'd like to try to keep posting here about what I feel God is working in my heart and scriptures He lays on my heart, so I can stay on track and not keep avoiding/procrastinating. :)
Blessings,
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
You are so welcome. As I said, that was how the Lord broke through to me. I understand that everyone is different, and the same tactics may not be effective for every single person. Even so, as faithfullyloved also said, it definitely sounds like there is some blockage.
I have been reading your comments, and it sounds to me like you might also be struggling with a lack of trust, as I also did. I know that before God broke me down and brought me to that place, I had a real hard time with trust. There were certain things that I did trust God with, but when it came to things like my heart and my emotions, I just wasn't able to give myself over completely to Him because I didn't completely trust Him. I mean, my will was present -- I wanted to trust Him, but something in my heart was impeding that. A lot of it was fear. I had been so hurt before, especially by my father, that it was hard for me to really put that kind of trust in anyone, and especially a "Heavenly Father." A lot of times, the walls that we build we build because we don't trust anyone enough to let them inside....to let them see who we really are.
1 John 4:18 says that perfect love casts out fear. I love this verse, because it reminds me that whatever fears I may have, that God's love is stronger than any of our fears....even the deep-seeded ones that we've sort of held onto. We are afraid of being hurt, but the Bible says that God's love is perfect. It is totally capable of conquering any fears we might have. We just have to learn how to trust in His love, so that we may let go of those fears.
I know what you're saying about being afraid of God breaking you, but you know what? When He broke me, I didn't have anyone there -- I was totally alone in my room, but God was there, and He was the one who held me and comforted me. I just want to encourage you, Tonya, because you have nothing to be afraid of, my friend. God is not going to break you down and bring you to that point without also lending you His comfort. 2 Cor. 1:3 tells us that God is the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. He loves you, and wants you to receive His beautiful gift of love that He died on the cross for, in order that you may receive -- You just have to trust Him enough to receive it.
One thing that you might want to start doing, if you don't already, is to keep a journal. I have found that when I am really in the thick of things, journaling really helps. Ask God to guide you as you journal. I really think this is something practical you can do to help you as you sort through all of this with the Lord.
I love how you are really seeking the Lord with your whole heart on this. God will honor that. He loves you, and even though you feel you haven't fully received His love, He is still waiting there to give it to you. If I can just say one last thing...if the time ever comes when you feel that God is starting to break you, don't fight it -- just allow Him to, because that means He is doing a work in you. You don't have to be afraid. Just trust in Him.
I hope this makes sense :)
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Right on! I loved how you (Beloved Branch) mentioned that the process of recovery and deliverance is different for each person- it can also be similar. The thing that remains unchanging is Jesus in the midst of it all...but even Christ, who is still the same, has many ways of communicating and demonstrating truth and love. He knows that each person has a set of different experiences, circumstances and even personalities. He knows where your heart hurts and where it is most damaged and He is most effective one at restoring those parts.
This section written by Beloved Branch is also really important to notice:
"I know what you're saying about being afraid of God breaking you, but you know what? When He broke me, I didn't have anyone there -- I was totally alone in my room, but God was there, and He was the one who held me and comforted me. I just want to encourage you, Tonya, because you have nothing to be afraid of, my friend. God is not going to break you down and bring you to that point without also lending you His comfort."
A lot of how God raises us up, happens one-on-one. I think He wants us not only to get encouragement from one another, but to get it directly from Him, so that you know without a doubt-He is FOR you individually. There is no better thing than to hear the Lord share truth and love directly to you. Just want you to know that when you choose to lean on Jesus - and depend on Him, it goes to the deepest parts of His heart. He is stirred in ways we will never understand. He went to the cross so that this kind of exchange of love and life could happen between us and Him forever-that is how crazy He is about us! It is seriously the best Valentine! Love unafraid also means that you realize that the fear is linked to punishment-perhaps of past mistakes. Praise Him that He took it to the cross. It is comforting to know He is stronger than our fear and helps us learn what it means to live and love unafraid.
Another thing about breaking down...It can be scary too because it can feel like dying. I remember it well, but nothing compares to having God breathe life back into you - not the old life, but the new. You can't measure being raised back to life directly from Him.
Tonya, He keeps doing good things in and through you.
Psalm 107 really gives some beautiful examples of His consistent love.
Oh and one more thing wahoo-just got up from a nap. I am soooo excited to share this with you and I never post this much at once on the site. This must be a special day hee ha! The verse that struck just now about dying begins like this. "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it DIES, it produces many seeds." John 12:24
I thought of a real-life example. There is this particular seed, I think, in the South American rain forest. If I am wrong about the region correct me. I saw this on the Discovery Channel years ago, but as the seed falls to the ground it cannot break open and begin to have life sprout from it until it actually comes in contact with fire and gets burned. These hard shells hold seeds that produce trees lasting around hundred years. Crazy huh? During that time few forest fires occur, the heat from the fire breaks open the seeds' outer hard shell without destroying the inside. After the fire dies down the plant is able to begin germinating. I was so blown away by that reality - it is very much like recovery.
We get to die to the old habits, to the old pattern of thinking and functioning, to the lies we have heard from others/enemy that can take a while-just like how a forest fire takes a while to die down. Once that initial breakthrough takes place, we can begin receiving God's love in a way that not just awes us, but nourishes us. We are positioned to receive and feed off of His love. So yeah there is the hearing stage then there is the eating stage where we take in the promises and the demonstrations of His goodness. It becomes not just a testimony of someone else, but our own life's never ending story.
I am just asking God to give me the grace to do what I can't. I've tried counseling off and on for years, since I was a teen. Every time, I never stuck with it. I always backed out. Always. So I know I need God's grace! I'm praying that He will give me the grace to just surrender myself to Him and allow Him to lead me to the place where God is able to break/remove my wall and start the healing process. And that I will know that His perfect love casts out my fear and that I can trust Him and know He is with me and will not leave me nor forsake me, but He will be there with me to show His compassion and comfort. When the breaking is taking place, I pray that He will give me grace to not resist/fight it, but let Him do His work in me so I can finally be free and start healing and be whole!
I love that song, with the words, "Your grace is enough, Your grace is enough, Your grace is enough for me, for me..." That song has been on my mind more lately.
Thanks for your words of encouragement and all you both are sharing!
Blessings to you both in the Lord,
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
That would be awesome to hear! Thanks Beloved Branch for your insights. :)
Haven't heard back from ya, belovedbranch about what you did to make yourself vulnerable/open to God to allow Him to start the healing process?
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Here's a simple question: Have you ever asked the Lord to help you with this -- to reach down into your heart and manifest this divine revelation to you directly?
Reading books is good, but sometimes it takes a direct work of the Holy Spirit for it to really "penetrate." Also, the word "penetrate" is interesting because the word itself implies that there are some barriers there. Do you ever feel like there are barriers around your heart that keep you from realizing these truths at the deepest levels?
It sounds to me like something is hindering you from fully receiving this love.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I have felt like I do have walls up around my heart, yes. I have told people and some friends and my husband, "I feel like I have a heart of stone; a walled up heart". I like how Dan Allender talked in his book, "The wounded heart" that we put up walls of self-protection. Yes, I do have walls up...I do have a pretty good idea of at least some of them. How to get them down, no idea. I've been praying that God would fulfill Ezekiel 36:26-26 for me personally: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit in you and move you to follow My decrees and be careful to keep My laws". {I know that God did fulfill it thru Jesus. But it hasn't become my personal reality yet; I haven't received it...hence, the barrier needs to be removed somehow}
I even have a song from these verses in Ezek. 36: 22-32:
"For the Sake of Your Holy Name"
For the sake of Your Holy Name
The holiness of Your great Name
Which we have profaned among the many nations
You will show Yourself holy
Thru us before the nations
Then they will know that You are the Lord
Holy, Holy, Holy (3 times)
For the sake of Your holy name
Holy, Holy, Holy (3 times)
For the sake of Your holy name
Cleanse us with water
Cleanse our impurities
No more idolatry
Remove our hearts of stone
And give us a heart of flesh
(Repeat chorus) (Holy, Holy, Holy...)
Put Your Spirit in us
Move us to follow You
Move us to obey You
Then we will be Your people
And You will be our God
(Repeat chorus) (Holy, Holy, Holy...)
Yes, I do feel something is hindering me, has been for so long, and quite frustrated with what to do to change that. I want to receive God's love. Anything you and others can share to help me seek God, scriptures, something that will help me to come a place of finally receiving His love, I am open to suggestions.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)