The Christian army vs military army.

Brother,

I agree wholeheartedly with your posting.

I think that we tend to throw out 1 Corinthians 13 when we are confronted with "correcting in love...".

I used to belong to a church where our pastor was convicted of embezzlement. He is awaiting sentencing for this crime.

The automatic response for most people would be to hate this man for the sins that he has committed.

What God showed me, is that I must hate sin, and love the sinner.

My former pastor is still saved, and he is my brother in Christ Jesus. I am required to love him, pray for him and help him in whatever way that I can.

How can I love him, or anyone else if I am angry with them?
Jesus Christ calls anger murder. Murder is not love, but sin. (reference Exodus 21)

Who am I to treat someone in an unkind way or harbor anger towards them? I have no rights, because I was bought with a price at Calvary's Cross. Jesus Christ owns me. Through this truth I am nothing outside of His perfect will for me.

I thank the LORD, that He has transformed my heart by the renewing of my mind.

Thank you brother, for reminding me that in all things that I do in this life, I do them to please my LORD. Gossip, slander and "rumor milling" does not Honor God. It generates anger, deception and damages people so much.

I am thankful that through my weakness, that God's stength and love is increased in me:)

May His name be Praised on High!

In God's Love and Service,
Alex

Good word, Garrett!!! Thank you for that reminder.

The thing is, whenever a person falls from grace like that, we are so prone to look down upon them, while ignoring the fact that we are just as vulnerable as they are.

I am reminded of the apostle Peter, who declared to Jesus that he would never betray him. He was convinced in his heart that he wouldn't, but the thing was, he did not even realize that he was capable of betraying the Lord...but Jesus did. We all have weaknesses, and that's why it's so important that we have compassion on those who fall.

I think a lot of it has to do with pride. When we walk around thinking that we are so mighty and proud, it's easy to look down on those who may fall. When we humble ourselves, we realize that we are no better than anyone else....We are just blessed to have the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Good call Garrett.
But for the Grace of God go I.

SonofAdam

we need to remember that we are ALL sinners. Christ didn't die to make us perfect, He died to take our sin,guilt,shame and so much more upon Himself. He died so we can be forgiven...BUT He did not say we will be perfect, for ONLY HE is perfect. When those in the army of Christ fall...WE need to lift them up. Lift them up in prayer. Love them as Christ loves them. We need to help point them back to the path that Christ has chosen for them....instead of making them feel worse. WE are all sinners,the verse that comes to my mind is "judge not lest ye be judged" :( And I know I have NO room to talk.

Please remember to pray for hose who have fallen, just as we pray for the families of those who have fallen in war...we NEED to pray for those who have fallen from God.

thank you so much for sharing this Garrett, it is a great reminder.God bless

take care
peace,hugs,prayers
boldness and blessings
carrie

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"Be mindful of those around you.
You may be their only source of hope and love for the day.
Be friend them, for everyone needs to know that they are loved"

Instead of carrying our wounded brothers and sisters off of the battlefield, we make matters WORSE by gossiping about them when we see them go through their own literal hell. I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind for us to be doing when He died for us on the cross.

I recently made a public apology to a person on another board. I railed against this man because of his sins, he said he repented of them but was once again making his rantings. I felt rather smug in my condemnation of him....'till I remembered my own sin, my contatant falling back into porn and giving up, coming back, giving up....God have mercy on me the sinner!

Personally, I think most Christians are saddened when a pastor or Christian leader fails in something.

A philosophy teacher once made the remark to me, "Did you know it is impossible for someone to feel insulted unless the receiver of the insult knows there is a truth to what is being said about themselves, no matter to what degree?"

"As a man THINKS so is he." He went on to say, "If I think I'm fat... I'm fat whether someone says it to hurt me or not. If I know I'm not and someone says, 'You're fat' then it is not an insult even if they meant it to be."

Then he gave the example of Jesus-

Jesus was able to withstand cutting remarks, slander, false accusations, etc. because He knew they were lies. He knows that a lie doesn't exist other than just words formed with lips and a tongue. So therefore, for us to feel upset, hurt, angry or even try to defend ourselves over NOTHING is pointless!

The teacher went on to say, "When one lives in truth and they KNOW IT about themselves, people can say whatever- whether true or false- and it doesn't matter one iota."

What a wise Saviour.

I agree to an extent, but there are certain times when words can cut a person deep even when they know they're not true.

Take racial slander as an example. I've been called the n-bomb a couple of times in my life, and that always hurts. There's no way around it. Granted, as I've grown and matured I tend to hurt more for the person saying it just because of their own ignorance and sin, but there are still times when that can get under my skin.

So I agree that many times a person is offended by something it's because their have their own insecurities about what's being said, BUT there are certain things that are said that have the ability to transcend that.

Words are ALWAYS either hurtful or helpful, and as Christians, we HAVE to realize that and watch what we say to people, and how we say it, because presentation can determine whether someone receives what we say, or if they are driven away by what we say. That being said, the REAL truths in God's Word ALWAYS brings us to repentance, or should I say a PLACE of repentance, and it is OUR choice as to whether or not we will repent and turn to God. The Gospel is EVERYWHERE we turn, whether it be on TV, radio, magazines, books, the internet, dvd videos, music cds, and so forth, so we are without excuse.

Gossip hurts a person whether what is being said is true for false. It hurts, not because of what is being said, but because it is a form of betrayal by those whom you trusted and thought cared about you.

Gossip is always done with the intent to slander, which is why it hurts so much. It keeps those who are being gossipped about from trusting others, and it shatters a person's confidence.

Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums

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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

"Gossip hurts a person whether what is being said is true or false."

"Gossip is always done with the intent to slander..."

A Christian who is living in truth and knows their standing before God should never be hurt by anything that is said.

Look at Jesus. He always continued walking forward, never concerned about what was said about Him, never trying to convince people of anything. He just told it like it is for our example and admonition.

I used to be one who was offended at anything and everything. Always seeking to please people. That all sounds wonderful and noble but the problem is that it leaves one mentally fragmented because everyone expects something different from you and you find yourself not knowing who you are.

The bible has much to say about warning others and caring about them enough to say something. Never out of a superior attitude but a concerned heart.

Here's a scenario- My former husband's first wife told me that she had suspicion that her husband was "interested" in me while they were still married. After she left for her safety and well-being, she said she wanted to tell me but was afraid that if she told me I would think she was gossiping and slandering her husband out of bitterness. I responded by saying, "I wish you had cared enough about me to tell me. I would have listened and considered why you left your husband and family behind from one woman to another." She felt so sad that she didn't tell me because of the damage to me, her kids and others and asked me to forgive her.

If she had told me, there would have been ALOT of heartache in ALOT of people's lives spared- all because of one person's sinful actions revealed.

We are our brother's keeper. We may not be responsible for each other but we are responsible to each other.

Gossip and slander for the sake of superiority is wrong. Telling the truth so that we can discern and make future decisions based on knowing truth is a whole other ball game. I wish I had been told the truth from the get-go. Yes, it would have made someone "look bad" but we must call a spade a spade and always seek to live in truth.

Bring on accusations, slander, gossip and anything else... if the shoe fits, we/I must wear it. If it doesn't, we/I just keep on walking forward like Jesus did. In the horse training world, we say, "Forward impulsion is everything." Amen.

"THE CHRISTIAN ARMY VS MILITARY ARMY." I realize this is a different line of thought but fits with the heading.

Ok let's see if I get the picture correctly here. Your saying THE CHRISTIAN ARMY VS MILITARY ARMY. Well ok, in the regular Army we have a bunch of people that look at the enemy, I assume make some plans, make an attack plan, delegate who is going to do what and when and perhaps even how and then everyone works together to get the job done. (You can see I was never in the military)

That actually is an interesting analogy. I found somewhere on this site where an individual could go out and do something to limit porn on the web. So on the one hand we are an army, but on the other hand an individual has to work alone and then often wonder why one gets beat up for standing up for something? I realize you are talking about one doing something wrong in your example, but really the criticism is there even if one does not do something wrong. In fact, I personally have gone to churches in the past to attempt to get even prayer support (honest wasn't asking for money or anything difficult) and the response I got over working to end starvation and reduce homelessness, was like I might steal their sheep.

I mean how many people could argue the point that it is not God's will that starvation is not only wrong, but a work of the devil? You would think that would be a no brainer. I actually had one minister tell me to move all of the people to solve the problem.

That's not being critical of Pink Cross, but just imagine what could be done if the body of Christ worked together to get things done? Really think of it for a moment. Acutually it almost gets me excited as to the possibility of the body of Christ working one something together, but imagine the impact it would have.

Really I am not being sarcastic in this post. I would love the Army of God to actually act like an Army to accomplish things like ending starvation, homelessness, reducing crime, reducing addictions, porn and host of other problems.

I am almost certain God woule think that would be wonderful too. Ok that was a tad on the sarcastic side. Come to think of it I think its even scriptural that the body of Christ is supposed to work in love and unity. How about that? Ok that was sarcastic. Couldn't help myself.

What keeps people from working together? That wasn't being sarcastic. You would think that if we all had a heart for God, we all could pull together. Lets face it there is some power in numbers of any people working together, whether it be for a good cause or not so good a cause. Is it pride that keeps us all from working together?

Do we think that Jesus is going to fix it? We probably should expect governments to fix it, but I do see that happens often.

What is it going to take to motivate the body of Christ to work together? Catastrophes of Biblical proportion? Do we wait until our children get killed or something? We all say God is first in our lives. WE all know we are to deal with those going hungry or a place to sleep, etc Matthew 25:31-46. God seems to be serious about it, so I wonder why we are not as serious about it?

Really would love to know what it will take,

Sarah

God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?

I know exactly what you're saying, s.carrol, and what it takes is every single Believer in Jesus Christ crying out to Him the same way a little child cries out to their father for his love. God's Word says, "If My people who are called by My Name will humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways, THEN will I hear from Heaven and heal their land." God healing our land isn't just about Him healing the physical land we live in, but it's about God healing our spiritual conditions and changing the things He wants to change in us so we can go forth MIGHTILY in the power of His Name. What God requires of us is for us to examine our own lives in the light of His Word, to allow His Word to pierce through our soul so He can rightly divide and remove any darkness that may be residing in us. We like to think that we can do that ourselves, but the real truth is that ONLY God can bring His two-edged sword in and remove the Ishmael that's living in us that wants our own way, wants all the glory and credit for what God has done in our lives, and doesn't want to obey God. God wants for the Isaac in us to rise up and take his place, because Isaac is God's chosen, so if we REALLY want to be God's chosen, then that's what we have to let God do in us. In order for us to get back to the place God wants us to be as His army, then we have to endure His discipline, which of course is loving, and endure the hardships He allows in our lives, and not shrink back and turn away from them, because it is those things that produce the endurance we need to go into our victory. It's time for us to grow up as Christians and to stop drinking the milk of His Word, as if we're still spiritual babies. We HAVE to have the meat of His Word, DAILY, and if there's something in God's Word we don't understand, then we need to seek God about it, and not turn to everyone and their momma, because everyone and their momma are not God, and they didn't write God's Word, which means that they're not the final authority. God wants for His army to FULLY trust Him in ALL things, not just in the things we are comfortable trusting Him in. We HAVE to put away our own agendas, whatever they may be, and realize that WE NEED EACH OTHER! God didn't design us to be islands unto ourselves so that we wouldn't need each others help.

A person can serve in God's army simply by praying. Not everyone has to be on the front lines. If all Christians would band together in prayer, much could be accomplished.

James 5:16 The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much

Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums

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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

If you're interceding for someone, then you're on the front lines. If you're preaching the Word, then you're on the front lines. If you're working in the food pantry, then you're on the front lines. WHATEVER you're doing for God is putting you on the front lines. Just because you don't see it that way doesn't mean that you're not there.

I see that in the church there is an overall perception that only some in the body of Christ are called to ministry and when that perception exists, then ministry becomes more of an option, but it all depends on how one defines what salvation is.

For example: If one believes that all it takes is a set of beliefs to be saved, then one does not have to do anything except believe. I know that scripture says. "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Many use that verse, but in understanding the word believe in how it was translated, one understands a closer translation to mean more "trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding, In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path."

Without further understanding one would think that one automatically trusts or does not trust God, which is why we and our beliefs are tested. One makes a statement like, "oh yes I trust God completely," and the next thing you know, your tested and often shown we are not trusting as much as we would like to think we are. For example it is one thing to trust God when the bills are paid and the cupboards are full and very much another to trust when none of the bills are paid and no food on the tables or place to sleep.

On this site of course a lot of it is about porn and people giving up being a sex worker. It sounds like it would be easy, but only sounds easy if you have never been in a situation when you have never been owned by someone and quiting may cost you your life and not only quiting, but even making plans to quit or even thinking that one is allowed to quit, just may cause one bodily harm or even death. We like to think one gets in as a sex worker because of the glamor and taking the easy way out in life and that is usually not the case. Many are even forced into slavery here in the Good ol US of A. We like to think it doesn't happen. We want to believe there is justice. Shoot, we want to believe a bunch of things, but that doesn't mean the things we believe are real.

We are all called to be Ambassadors for Christ, which implies we are on the front lines. All of us. We are all ordained and all called to some sort of ministry to prove our faith and live it. Is salvation walking the path with God through Jesus? If that is how salvation is really defined, then that is something completely different than just believing.

We if we really get the picture are to minister to all in body, soul and spirit and part of that means putting ourselves in the other persons shoes and walking with them as a part of the family. That certainly is far more than just preaching at someone. And yes when one does minister to people in body, soul and spirit, often one is used (not in a good way either).

Often when we ask someone to accept Christ, some are actually putting their lives on the line to do so and probably a good idea to maybe think of that?

Sarah

God does have a plan for everyone and everyone is called to be a part of ministry somewhere. All jobs in ministry are important as it is designed by God to be a servant and save lives. God gave us so much, but how much do we give Him in return?

Another thing to consider are those who accept Jesus that are Islamic. They DEFINITELY are put in a position where it could very well cost them their life if they accept Jesus as their Savior. I know what you're saying about that, and I know it's true that there are those people out there that it would cost them their lives if they were to accept Jesus as their Savior. What we as Christians HAVE to realize is that we are ALL in the ministry, in whatever capacity God has placed us in, and ALL we have to do is stay faithful right where God has put us, and if we will stay faithful, then He WILL promote us. In order for us to walk the paths that God has put us on, then we HAVE to walk our paths with our WHOLE faith in God, not just part of our faith, and it definitely requires us to believe that God is right there with us, even if we don't "feel" Him there. What it all comes down to is that we are called to LOVE with the love that God has given to us, and to not withhold that love from ANYONE, regardless of the pain we will go through because of our choice to love. We cannot expect to not have pain if we are loving those around us with the Love of God. Love and pain go hand in hand, because not everyone is going to be receptive to the Love of God in us, and we CANNOT take offense at what other people do and say against us, because it's not us they're angry at, it's really God. We HAVE to maintain that perspective, otherwise we'll be basing our expression of God's Love on what others have done against us, and we will be limiting what God REALLY wants to do through us. Our perspective is our reality, meaning the way we see things is the reality in which we live every single day. If we see ourselves as defeated, then our perspective of ourselves will dictate to us that we cannot have victory. THAT is how powerful our perspectives really are, and THAT is why we MUST see things the way God does, and that does take time. As God's Word states, "No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." This means that we HAVE to allow God to change that part of us that we are sensitive and insecure about if we expect to move into what He has for us. If we don't, then we will shrink back from what God has for us.

I must confess I have certainly judged leadership pretty harshly. I can't tell you how many pastors I saw fall in the religious congregation I grew up in.(It didn't help that we had a Scottish Rite Temple across the street.) I however was a part of a ministry that believed in restoring fallen leadership when I came out to California. I'm amazed talking to ministries abroad even how they won't even speak with me about a leader we both knew and that person's well being.
Yet I'm such a hypocrite I find myself judging leaders maybe I expect too much from them. I'm not sure. I appreciate my current pastors transparency at our men's Encounter the Holy Spirit weekend. I also gossip... a lot. All the guys in my house do it we do that rather than talk to each other about what is bothering us. I was at a 12 step meeting today and one person talked about before they had come to the program they didn't know how to not gossip or how to be honest with people. I was like, "Really you can do that?" He it's news to me. Unfortunately I didn't grow up with a lot of common sense or decency.

Just a reminder, everyone...This is not a place for us to come down on fellow members. We are here to lift each other up, and encourage one another. If exhortation is in order, then please do so by pointing out Scriptures....and if someone is disclosing their personal struggles, please refrain from responding harshly.

If a critical attitude is presumed, your post will be deleted.

Col. 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one

Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums

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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

Hey, tall guy...I can tell you that you are not the only one. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a tendency to criticize leadership. It's definitely a work of the flesh, and something that needs to be kept in check.

Even so, I can tell by your post that you realize that this is wrong, and that you want to correct it. That's good, because a lot of people who are critical of others won't even admit that they are wrong...They just continue on in it. At lease you are admitting that you need to change, and God can definitely work with that!!

It's only when we admit our sin that God is able to help us overcome it. Just continue to repent and pray, and ask the Holy Spirit to convict you whenever the temptation arises to criticie others, or gossip.

Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums

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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

I did feel there were some rather harsh words being spoken that I didn't like. I'm glad it got deleted, it was inappropriate.

I admit that I am one of those who tends to criticize and find fault, sigh. I'm working on changing this, realizing that God prefers us to lift each other up in prayer rather than seeing faults in one another, especially leaders, whether christian or not. I agree with AMK that there is a need to have truth spoken when it relates to warning of danger such as a bad relationship or bad business proposition, etc. Motive is at issue. Is our motive out of concern and compassion, wanting to spare someone harm? God knows our motives, we cannot fool Him. We do deceive ourselves, and others. But not God.

"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)

Hi, Tonya;

I agree with you 100%...that motive is the main issue.

I guess what it all boils down to is whether it is done in the Spirit, or in the flesh. The Bible tells us that we are not to pass judgment on our brothers and sisters, but it also tells us that we are to exhort when necessary.

I believe that if the Spirit leads us to exhort someone, that He will enable you to do so in a way that is Christlike...lowly and meek, with humility and love and gentleness. He is not going to lead you to confront someone in a harsh manner, because He will have us do it in such a way that He can convict that other person through what we say.

I think that a lot of people struggle with this. I also think that when a person is overly critical and judgmental, it has to do with how that person sees him or herself. I think the Bible indicates that, as well. Romans 2 basically tells us that in whatever we judge another person, that we condemn ourselves. I especially like Romans 2:4:

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentace

It just continually reminds me that if I judge someone else, that I am forgetting God's grace towards me, and I am in no position to judge another person, because like Him, I have been redeemed by the mercy and grace of God, and am no better than he.

Once a person takes the focus off of him/herself, and puts it on God, then that person will be less likely to scrutinize other people, because judgmentalism is ideally a person saying "I'm better than you are."

I know that's what the Lord has been teaching me, because as I said before, I think we all struggle with this at one time or another.

Beloved Branch
Moderator
Pink Cross Forums

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Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies

I love to assist others in growing, and enjoy growing myself. I do not care to cleave to toxic characteristics that bread out of envie, competition and jealousy. James 3 & 4 is a great read about this topic.

Over the years I have had to learn the test of understanding when to share and when to be quiet. Being quit is not always a result of the information I have is not worth being shared, as much as it is to guard my heart, mind and information from those who themselves are toxic or not trustworthy.

Mrs. Eden